Constant arm pain (I'm a beginner)

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Airthrow, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. Airthrow

    Airthrow Yellow Belt

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    Hey guys, I'm new at boxing...I'm trying to get serious about it, I've got to lose some weight to get down to welter weight (I'm 5'8", wide shouldered and stocky).

    Anyways, at my gym basically you're on your own unless you compete, and I'm not there yet, so basically I just go there to work out until I can prove I have some potential. Since I don't really talk to anyone there, I have no idea: Is it supposed to hurt your arms and ribs after every workout?

    Even though I throw way more jabs, my right bicep and tricep pretty much ALWAYS hurt a lot after I hit the bags and go home. Today I hurt my right arm particularly bad after a right hook to the heavy bag and had to take off my gloves so I could stretch it out.

    Tiger balm seems to help a lot, but is the pain normal, or does it prove my technique is wrong or that I'm just out of shape? I'm pretty strong and have big arms.
     
  2. Matt

    Matt Titanium Belt

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    Sounds like you are definitely doing something wrong. Also sounds like something is wrong with the gym if they don't provide any training. When you say they don't train you unless you compete - it sounds a little backwards to me; you can't get to a competitive level without training...I don't really understand the reasoning there.

    Also if you had some training you would be getting instruction on correct technique and probably not hurting yourself on the bags. You might want to look at other gyms?
     
  3. ballie

    ballie White Belt

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    sounds like your doing something wrong
    do you throw hooks with vertical fist to the bag?
    because I know you can hurt your musles with that if you do it wrong

    the ribs : sounds like the little muscles in between your ribs..maybe you try to take it to hard for a beginner? maybe your body isn't used to the kind of movement

    but I would recommend a serious trainer who can say what your doing wrong
     
  4. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    Rexholio is right. A gym that just expects you to get to competition level on your own doesn't sound like a very professional place. I would think about switching facilities.
     
  5. Airthrow

    Airthrow Yellow Belt

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    Nope, my hooks are horizontal not vertical, maybe I am just not limber in the rib cage yet, also it seems to hurt my bicep and tricep the most, only in my right arm, and I stand orthodox.

    Well sometimes I get a few snippets of advice from the professionals, but I just pay the cheapest membership that only includes use of the facilities, I could pay more for personal instruction. Also I am in decent cardiovascular shape but I am 20lbs overweight to get into the weightclass I need to be in, I talked to a trainer who said after I lost the weight I could show him what I have and he might work with me...

    And, yesterday when I worked out I saw two PROMINENT MMA fighters training, so I wouldn't call this place unprofessional.
     
  6. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Why are you throwing a right hook if you are orthodox? You are doing something wrong. This is not a typical injury that people get from boxing. You need to check with a trainer, or just ask somebody who knows what they are doing to critique you a little.
     
  7. TapDG

    TapDG Guest

    Your technique is bad..simple as that..Ask an instrusctor before you hurt yourself bad
     
  8. Freestyler

    Freestyler Purple Belt

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    Like who??
     
  9. CHawkins

    CHawkins Blue Belt

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    Providing no training to a gym member is unprofessional, period, end of story, full stop.

    1) Find a new gym.

    2) Go see a doctor.
     
  10. Airthrow

    Airthrow Yellow Belt

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    I'll ask tommorow, but why shouldn't I be throwing a right hook?

    I've been to two different boxing gyms in my area, one for about two months during high school, didn't learn anything there because I didn't get any instruction, so it's definately not only this gym where you're on your own.

    I'm sure I will be able to get some training when I lose more weight, I'm currently 5'8" and 169lbs, one trainer (not associated with this gym from my understanding) told me that if I lost the weight I could show him what I got and he'd see...so my impression is they think they'll waste their time on me since I'm chubby at the moment.
     
  11. Freestyler

    Freestyler Purple Belt

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    Thats pretty shitty if its true
     
  12. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If you're orthodox you should VERY rarely be throwing a right hook, because you can't throw it as a true boxing hook. Instead you are probably just throwing an arm hook, not throwing the hook with the legs like a true boxing hook. You are also probably overextending and twisting way too much as you bring the right hand in. In short, the rear hook is almost always just a sloppy haymaker.

    There is some use for the rear hook when the other guy is caught on the ropes, can't move, and you square up and blast him from every angle to try to put him out. But that is an unusual situation, and not something you should be practicing for on the heavy bag.

    My guess: You are throwing the rear hook with all-arm, and that is what is jacking your arm up. You need almost no arm strength if you are throwing a hook right. Give up on the rear hook, learn a true right cross (which can loop if you want), and I bet your problems go away with time.
     
  13. Airthrow

    Airthrow Yellow Belt

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    I think this is the problem, I didn't realize that at all. I should be ok from now on, as I'm sure it was just right hooks that were causing me the pain. Yes, I was twisting a whole lot and using arm strength.

    Thanks a lot man.
     
  14. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    That's absolutely ridiclous. It's completely possible to throw a right hook, just as easily as a left. The drive line with your legs is the same as a straight right or a right uppercut. This isn't even debatable.
     
  15. Te(V)plar

    Te(V)plar Black Belt

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    Punch the heavy bag over and over until Clint Eastwood takes you under his wing, despite being a girl.
     
  16. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    Did a two-minute search and found this stuff.

    From Wikipedia:
    ""It can be thrown with either hand but is typically a lead hand punch."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing#Punches
    Nothing there about a right hook being an arm punch.

    A little more from the BBC Sport Academy .

    Diogenes Luna hitting a right hook on Willy Blain:
    [​IMG]

    Michael Gomez hitting a right hook on Alex Arthur:
    [​IMG]

    I'm sorry to beat a dead horse Zank but inaccurate stuff like that ("a right hook is not a real boxing hook...") really bugs the hell out of me.
     
  17. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't deny that the right hook is sometimes thrown ... but it's very rare, and usually an amateurish thing when it's thrown a lot. In that first photo, I wouldn't call that a hook -- it's just a right cross with a bent arm. It's connecting flush, with the elbow bent *down*, with the arm moving forward in a line. A chopping right with the arm bent can be a useful punch in certain circumstances, but it's not a hook. See how he's lunging forward into it?

    That second shot is indeed a true right hook. But the only reason he's throwing it is because he has gotten an angle, almost switching his stance completely. See how his hips are in southpaw stance? That's what you need to throw a genuine right hook, an almost complete reversal of your hips. That can happen in infighting, but it's fairly specialized.

    I'm definitely not against the rear hook ever being thrown. It's just I think it has very limited application, and a lot of guys try throwing it out of a full orthodox stance v. their opponent. You can't do that unless you (a) arm punch or (b) square up your hips on the guy. Sometimes both of those are a good thing, but the limits of their application should be recognized.

    I also think it's a bad thing to learn as a beginner because they end up throwing the rear hook as a variation on the right cross, where you twist your body into the punch like a normal right cross and then use your arm to generate rotation to bring the punch across. Instead of the shoulder lagging the hook, you have the shoulder driving into the hook, with arm used. That defect is hard enough to eliminate from the lead hook.
     
  18. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    Dude, this is absolutely ridiculous; I can't believe you're actually denying this. I see it used in professional boxing all the time.

    Like I said, this is what I found on a two minute search.

    You don't know why he's throwing it because you're not him. Don't pretend that you can read minds.

    No, they aren't. His left hip is still forward. Look at the picture again.

    Dude, do you actually believe this horseshit? I swear, you sound like a lot of these dogmatic martial arts cultists now. Look, just because you didn't learn it doesn't mean that it can't be done. I throw right hooks all the time. I throw it from orthodox stance, with no power for it coming from my arms. I drive my legs the same as a right cross, just with my wrist turned out and my elbow bent. In the same coin, I also throw a right uppercut with the same technique as my right hook and right straight, just as my left uppercut is thrown the same as my left hook. It's fine if you don't use it, but don't go around telling people that it can't be done because you can't do it.

    So have a coach tell somebody to stop using the arm and throw it as a variation of the right cross. That's how I learned it.
    Also, when I first started throwing an uppercut, I would just thrust my arm up and just arm/shoulder punch it because I was a beginner. Does that mean it was a bad thing to learn? No, my coach just did his job - coached me - and I broke the habit. And he did the same thing when I first learned by left and right hooks, and was arm punching with both.

    Look, beginners screw up. That's part of being a beginner. Why do you think that somebody should just not practice the right hook correctly but sharpen everything else?
     
  19. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Calm down man. We're talking in circles. I'm obviously not saying there's no rear hook; read my first post. I've thrown plenty of them myself, albeit usually when the opponent is shelled up and I've got the angle. I just don't see it as a common punch, that its application is relatively limited due to physiological constraints, and I think a lot of beginners try throwing it too much because it feels more natural and powerful than the 1/2/3 punches. So I feel that beginners should concentrate on the more fundamental punches first, just as most boxing programs do. We can have different views on that. If you're having good luck throwing the right hook out of orthodox, that's terrific. It's not worth getting emotional about -- I'm just trying to help this guy, and I suspect that arm punching a rear hook is his issue. You're a good poster, and I respect your views, it's cool.
     
  20. SKD

    SKD Blue Belt

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    How about right hooks to the body ?

    I'm a right handed fighter and I've found my left hooks are better (more powerful/quicker) than my right.
     

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