Conor doesn't have a cardio problem he just doesn't know how to pace himself correctly

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Hi-Tech, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Hi-Tech

    Hi-Tech Slavic Fighter Double Yellow Card

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    When it comes to boxing and MMA stand up the experience at the absolute top level is vital.

    A very important part of this experience is that the fighters are able to pace themselves correctly in a fight that is likely to go for multiple rounds. An elite professional boxer like Floyd has had so many 12 round fights that having the "cardio" to go 12 round is just natural to him not only because of his excellent physical shape and conditioning but also because he knows what his body can and can't do and how he needs to pace himself through the fight to last.

    When they're building up young boxing talents they're often feeding them tough journeymen that are able to last for several rounds with them so that these boxing talents get the experience of how it's like to fight 4, 6, 8 and more rounds.

    A great example of a superior boxer who lost because he lacked the experience of fighting a durable fighter in a long 12 round fight is Wladimir Klitschko when the tough journeyman Ross Puritty beat the crap out of him and handed him his first loss. Before he fought Puritty Klitschko was never past the 6th round in his career, as an olympic gold medalist and one of the best pure athletic talents in boxing history he was over confident against Puritty who was able to survive the storm and then prevailed in the later rounds, ultimately winning by TKO in the 11th. Klitschko didn't lose because of "cardio" as such because he always had superb conditioning, he lost because he lacked the experience how to pace himself in a 12 round fight.

    Now in MMA young talents like Conor aren't built up in this way, Conor simply knocked out everyone left and right on his path to the UFC. He was NEVER in a stand up war that would last past the 2nd round (fight against Holloway was mostly grappling, he can't fight Diaz like that obviously). Nate Diaz on the other hand has 10 fights in the UFC that went to decision. It's this dramatic difference in experience that is Conor's problem, not his cardio.

    Conor probably doesn't have a cardio problem, it's just that in his career he never faced any tough durable fighters that would push him and last until the decision, giving him this vital experience. Conor went out against Nate like a madman and hit him with everything and now he even thinks that he was actually "winning" because of that and all he needs is more cardio. But this is a wrong way of thinking because if he fights like that again even with better cardio he will still have the same problem except that it will maybe happen in the 3rd or 4th round. It would be better for him if he had a tune up fight with some durable fighter and carry him to the decision to see how his body reacts in a real 5 round pro fight but obviously due to the UFC format this isn't possible.

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    TL;DR Conor never fought a stand up war against a durable fighter that would go past the 2nd round, he lacks the experience in how to pace himself in a real fight that is likely to go the distance. It's unlikely that he has a cardio problem, his conditioning is probably top notch.
     
  2. accolyte1022

    accolyte1022 S.T.A.L.K.E.R Belt

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    Properly paced Conner FTW.
     
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  3. McgreGOATsLeft

    McgreGOATsLeft alone

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    He most definitely doesn't have a cardio problem, it's a Sherdog myth created by Sherbros so that they can talk shit about him.
    He has gone the distance before.
     
  4. chitoortiz

    chitoortiz Silver Belt

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    Isn't cardio problems and not know how to pace one's self kinda the same thing?
     
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  5. Ryoto Machida

    Ryoto Machida Brown Belt

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    I agree. He's actually shown himself able to pace his output well in the past, but that was with opponents that wilted under his firepower and just shelled up defensively. Nate forced him into an exchange every time he attacked. Conor got the better of most of the exchanges, but constantly having to fend off a counter attack wore him down pretty quick. Part of the issue was, Conor was used to being able to stay in the pocket after an attack with little fear of retribution, clearly that wasn't the case with Nate. I think if Conor is to win this one he'll have to employ a stick and move strategy with a lot of lateral movement and leg kicks, against the more plodding style of Nate Diaz. The x-factor will be Conor's ego, and if he can avoid getting sucked into boxing exchanges in the pocket with a guy who will undoubtedly be constantly goading him into it.
     
  6. Breaking

    Breaking One shall stand, and one shall fall.

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    Not knowing how to pace yourself correctly IS A CARDIO PROBLEM.

    It's also an IQ problem. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that any person competing in an athletic sport needs to know how to "be efficient with their energy."

    The fact that a professional athlete wouldn't know that is borderline retarded.
     
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  7. BearGrounds

    BearGrounds A great many scalps.

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    His issue is he put all his eggs in one basket (the headhunt KO) and underestimated Diaz, because he was feeling himself due to how quickly he dispatched Aldo.

    It seemed like he really thought he'd just starch Diaz, so I honestly doubt managing his energy ever even crossed his mind, until it was too late.

    He knows how to pace himself already, he just needs to get off his own D and consider the fact that he might actually have to work his ass off for the win.
     
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  8. MMun

    MMun Black Belt

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    Why do you think he has so many knockouts? That's a big part of his stardom. He wouldn't be such a huge draw if half of his fights went to decision. He goes for the kill all the time, and when that doesn't work he gets tired. Is normal.
     
  9. Hi-Tech

    Hi-Tech Slavic Fighter Double Yellow Card

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    Not really. Cardio problem can be "genetic" or is sometimes the case of people who went into sports later in their life and don't have the lungs. It can also be down to poor conditioning.

    Some fighters are able to overcome having shitty cardio by having great fight IQ and experience like the overweight version of James Toney. Now if you put that James Toney through a series of tests involving your typical cardio exercises he would have probably failed miserably but in the ring he was able to go 12 rounds.
     
  10. chitoortiz

    chitoortiz Silver Belt

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    Yes really lol.

    I run marathons. If you can't properly pace yourself, your cardio usually sucks.
     
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  11. Hi-Tech

    Hi-Tech Slavic Fighter Double Yellow Card

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    Tyson was a star because of his knockdown yet even young ("prime") Mike Tyson went 10 rounds with Mitch Green and James Tillis in 1986 and 12 rounds with Tony Tucker and James Smith in 1987.
     
  12. Hi-Tech

    Hi-Tech Slavic Fighter Double Yellow Card

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    Yeah but the pace in fights is different to pace in cardio-oriented sports and exercises.

    Fighting has a certain broken rhythm and experienced fighters need to know when to push and when to hold back, when to look for exchanges and when to cruise.

    There's no broken rhythm in marathons or running.
     
  13. chitoortiz

    chitoortiz Silver Belt

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    I'm not a fighter...so I have no idea how different it really is.

    Tons of fighters on here though.
     
  14. MMA92585

    MMA92585 Blue Belt

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    Did you predict Nate upsetting Connie?
     
  15. McgreGOATsLeft

    McgreGOATsLeft alone

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    No, no I did not... however I did predict Conor over Aldo, Stipe over werdum, Bisping over Rockhold, Eddie over RDA, and Woodley over Lawler and I do have proof.
     
  16. Old Timer

    Old Timer Blue Belt

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    Must say I am having some trouble with your thinking on the subject. Pace and Cardio are basically one in the same. Having some fight IQ helps for sure, falling prey to his giant ass ego will hurt him again if he allows it.

    He needs a lot of movement, he can't grapple with Diaz and I don't think he has the power to really hurt him, lucky shots do happen of course. Boxing is all Diaz. If he can't move around Diaz, he can't win the fight. That is the way I saw the first fight, and the way I see the second fight.
     
  17. mcdowels

    mcdowels Brown Belt

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    Conor has a chin problem
     
  18. Bewareofdawg

    Bewareofdawg Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Lol it's not like Conor gassed out in the 4th round, or even the 3rd. He got rocked, panicked and gassed in the 2nd round! 7 minutes into the damn fight. That is ridiculous. It was like watching a Kimbo fight.
     
  19. BayAreaGuy

    BayAreaGuy Good Day

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    The best example of pacing would be a guy like Fedor.

    His coach once explained Fedor's strategy. He would explode in bursts, then rest for a while, then explode in a limited burst, repeat... I've always thought that was a smart strategy on their part to fight aggressively, yet maintain cardio.
     
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  20. Hi-Tech

    Hi-Tech Slavic Fighter Double Yellow Card

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    Well I'm not a native English speaker but I'm pretty sure that pace is more about how you set the rhythm and in a fight setting that's quite different from cardio.

    As I said, the elite A-level athlete Klitschko in his physical prime with superb conditioning gassed against a journeyman Puritty because he didn't pace himself correctly, he wanted to finish the fight and underestimated the durability of the more experienced pro fighter. Put those guys through strictly cardio exercises and Klitschko would definitely come on top.

    If you train boxing, kickboxing or MMA you must have noticed how certain experienced fighters are able to be fresh for rounds in sparring even when they're out of shape. Personally I don't have the best cardio but I'm able to go 8, 10 rounds straight in sparring after two weeks of holidays against less experienced but more athletic guys because I'm able to slow down the pace of the fight, move laterally and create awkward angles which enables me to be just out of their punching range with the least of effort (while they don't have the experience to close me down) and then explode and push 2-3 times a round to "edge it" (if someone was scoring it).
     

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