confirmed or debunked? green beret standards

[Limeade]

has anyone read the scathing letter that went around in December? the author claims he is with the green beret community and that the quality standards have been lowered.

I can't tell if he is a disgruntled individual, someone bitter because he was passed for a promotion, or it's just a fake story.

I'm on my phone. sorry I will post more later. on my first read, I didn't think some of his complaints were a big deal at all.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/20...ered_for_first_female_green_beret_298664.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4329138-Anonymous-Letter.html

 

[Protectandserve]

Woulx not surprise me. Military has been dropping standards ledt and right for a while now. Just look at the Navy and Air Force waving physical fitness requirements.

You can only put so much strain on it for so long. Shit I've been out for 3 years now and I am getting innundated with recruiters asking me to come back in and they are offering several grand in bonuses.

 

[DoomPatrol]

has anyone read the scathing letter that went around in December? the author claims he is with the green beret community and that the quality standards have been lowered.

I can't tell if he is a disgruntled individual, someone bitter because he was passed for a promotion, or it's just a fake story.

I'm on my phone. sorry I will post more later. on my first read, I didn't think some of his complaints were a big deal at all.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/20...ered_for_first_female_green_beret_298664.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4329138-Anonymous-Letter.html

Obviously it would take someone in the community to verify this as 100% authentic, but I can definitely believe it. Standards across the board got cut because they needed numbers for the wars. It's fucked up. Even as a regular grunt I ran into guys who couldn't pass a PFT. Luckily I had some guys in charge of me who weren't pussies and they made sure to remind all of us that anything below a 1st class PFT was simply unacceptable. But I knew guys who didn't meet weight standards, couldn't do the pullups and couldn't do the run.

In my opinion, standards need to go up significantly. And if you're in any sort of combat arms, you better run a 1st class or you're getting booted to some POG job.

The Marine corps minimum needs to go from 3 pullups to 10 and from 33 minutes to 25 minutes on the run. If you're too fat and weak to pull that off, you don't need to be in the military. Oh and having a cunt doesn't exempt you from those standards.

 

[all caps]

Symptom of the participation trophy generation. We have to lower standards so everyone can qualify for everything. Everyone is special. Didn't you hear?

 

[Phr3121]

Has anyone read the scathing letter that went around in December? The author claims he is with the green beret community and that the quality standards have been lowered. I can't tell if he is a disgruntled individual, someone bitter because he was passed for a promotion, or it's just a fake story.

We already had a thread on this letter not too long ago. @sub_thug is Special Forces and I believe @soILL618 is one also. There was a counter letter by a SF General. I personally think the General was full of shit and playing to the political agenda handed to him. The standards have been lowered to accommodate women. There is no question about that. How much and which standards is the question. The U.S. Army Ranger school was already impacted and now the Army's Special Forces community and the U.S. Navy's SEAL community will also be affected.

That girl on the picture in the article looks like one of the female West Point cadets/Lieutenants that went through Ranger school. The two that graduated failed every phase of the course and got recycled more than once in each phase. When they decided to quit, the General brought them in for a little 'pep talk' to motivate them to stay with the program. Again, you had a two star General telling the Ranger training Brigade that a woman will graduate from the course, period. What that fuck is that suppose to mean? How do you respond to that? Take your own Ranger tab off?

So, little sister now wants the long tab, 'Special Forces'. She wants to be the first female U.S. Army officer who is triple tabbed: Special Forces, Ranger, and Airborne. Man, I'm glad I retired when I did. Today's Army is not the same Army I joined in 1988. Women in the Infantry, Ranger school, SF school, and BUDS.

The most outrageous issue to me was 'land navigation'. How the fuck are you supposed to be an effective operator if you can't read a map and move from point A to point B with a compass? How can you 'call for fire' or an 'airstrike' when you don't know where you are? ...and forget GPS. Anything electronic is bound to malfunction when you most need it (weather/battery). No, you are not a soldier if you can't read a map and use a compass.

"This is the state of the entire SFQC as it stands today. Students do not need to be able to pass a 2-mile run at an 80% standard. They do not need to pass a 5-mile run in under 40 minutes. They do not need to be able to pass a 12-mile ruck march in under 3 hours. They are not required to find ANY points during their land nav training and assessment. They do not need to be able to perform 8 pull-ups. They do not need to be able to perform 57 push-ups, or 66 sit-ups. They no longer need to be able to climb a 15 foot rope with weight on. Students are no longer administered any form of physical or administrative punishment. After passing a 19-ish day selection process, there are no physical barriers to earning the coveted Green Beret."

Let's just do it by correspondence on the internet...no more being tired, hungry, hot, cold, wet, etc.

 

[Sketch]

Symptom of the participation trophy generation. We have to lower standards so everyone can qualify for everything. Everyone is special. Didn't you hear?

To be fair, everyone does deserve a trophy. If you think about it. Life is tough and just waking up and getting ready for work requires immense strength. We don't give out enough trophies to be perfectly honest. I know you agree with me.

 

[EZShrimpn]

the U.S. global war on terror is in 37 countries and has been going for 17 years with no end in sight.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

No idea where the truth lies, but I had to laugh at the training cadre finding all those GPS units hidden in the woods during land nav.

 

[DoomPatrol]

We already had a thread on this letter not too long ago. @sub_thug is Special Forces and I believe @soILL618 is one also. There was a counter letter by a SF General. I personally think the General was full of shit and playing to the political agenda handed to him. The standards have been lowered to accommodate women. There is no question about that. How much and which standards is the question. The U.S. Army Ranger school was already impacted and now the Army's Special Forces community and the U.S. Navy's SEAL community will also be affected.

That girl on the picture in the article looks like one of the female West Point cadets/Lieutenants that went through Ranger school. The two that graduated failed every phase of the course and got recycled more than once in each phase. When they decided to quit, the General brought them in for a little 'pep talk' to motivate them to stay with the program. Again, you had a two star General telling the Ranger training Brigade that a woman will graduate from the course, period. What that fuck is that suppose to mean? How do you respond to that? Take your own Ranger tab off?

So, little sister now wants the long tab, 'Special Forces'. She wants to be the first female U.S. Army officer who is triple tabbed: Special Forces, Ranger, and Airborne. Man, I'm glad I retired when I did. Today's Army is not the same Army I joined in 1988. Women in the Infantry, Ranger school, SF school, and BUDS.

The most outrageous issue to me was 'land navigation'. How the fuck are you supposed to be an effective operator if you can't read a map and move from point A to point B with a compass? How can you 'call for fire' or an 'airstrike' when you don't know where you are? ...and forget GPS. Anything electronic is bound to malfunction when you most need it (weather/battery). No, you are not a soldier if you can't read a map and use a compass.

"This is the state of the entire SFQC as it stands today. Students do not need to be able to pass a 2-mile run at an 80% standard. They do not need to pass a 5-mile run in under 40 minutes. They do not need to be able to pass a 12-mile ruck march in under 3 hours. They are not required to find ANY points during their land nav training and assessment. They do not need to be able to perform 8 pull-ups. They do not need to be able to perform 57 push-ups, or 66 sit-ups. They no longer need to be able to climb a 15 foot rope with weight on. Students are no longer administered any form of physical or administrative punishment. After passing a 19-ish day selection process, there are no physical barriers to earning the coveted Green Beret."

Let's just do it by correspondence on the internet...

Edit - nvm I'm pretty sure I'm wrong.

 

[Stoic1]

I'm still in.

I can tell you that standards are lower.

And, strangely enough, with that huge drawdown we saw a circling of wagons. Back to a zero defect environment. Everyone is scared of that one bad evaluation that will end your career. Nobody will take a risk and tell their boss no.

3 years ago ZERO SSG to SFC scouts were promoted. And just last year only 66% of infantry CPT made it to MAJ.

Supposedly we are ramping back up. Even accepting category 4's for enlistment. So no fucking idea what is happening with our numbers.

I can tell you however that standards in every facet have been lowered. It isn' just the physical stuff to allow women to succeed.

We are fucked up.

 

[Roaming East]

attritions a bitch. You run an unending war for a few decades and you suddenly find that all the alpha males get worn down and stop hitting the 'reup' button and you gotta relax standards to keep numbers up. Saw it happening in my career field right before i took my walking papers. I was in the air force where if you did anything remotely like ground combat you could expect to max out as a MSgt (E7). I was just making E5 when my army peers were transitioning to E6 or had worn the rank for over a year or more. So from a USAF perspective, i could keep on keeping on, dealing with a ridiculous deployment cycle, shit advancement rate, and limited duty assignments as my body got worn down, or GTFO and make bank on the outside. Lotta guys rolling with opting B and the services gotta start letting the B rosters in.

 

[the ambush]

has anyone read the scathing letter that went around in December? the author claims he is with the green beret community and that the quality standards have been lowered.

I can't tell if he is a disgruntled individual, someone bitter because he was passed for a promotion, or it's just a fake story.

I'm on my phone. sorry I will post more later. on my first read, I didn't think some of his complaints were a big deal at all.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/20...ered_for_first_female_green_beret_298664.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4329138-Anonymous-Letter.html

IMO too much classified information leaking. The guy needs to practice better operations security.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The Green Berets peaked in high school, of course they lowered their standards.

 

[BillytheFish]

There is alot of shit being talked in here considering the generations of the past 17 years have been on back to back deployments. Compare that with the military of the late 70s, 80s, 90s.

People in the military of all branches always complain about standards dropping. Always has happened- always will.

 

[Phr3121]

Commander of the Special Warfare Center, Major General Kurt Sonntag responds to careerism, cronyism, and malfeasance email.

Story: https://sofrep.com/95041/exclusive-...-to-careerism-cronyism-and-malfeasance-email/

@sub_thug where are you at man? I'm going to post your input from the other thread if you don't mind:

That said, I do have some facts that will provide some key insight into how things have shaped up: SFAS is NOT owned by the SF community! It's curriculum must be signed off by Army TRADOC! That's right, a conventional 4-Star Army Command has some authority over the Green Beret pipeline. This is really important because SFAS was modified when women became eligible to attend SFAS when all combat roles became open to women. Women competed against a woman's standard, not the same standard as the men. And I heard that they carried lighter rucks for all the timed marches, but I don't know that for sure. However, the Q-Course is owned by SWCS. So, if the first article is true, then that means that USAJFKSWCS is under tremendous political pressure to pass some female Green Berets. I can guarantee that is playing into this. As a matter of fact, I think that this is the biggest thing right here. I'm starting to think that we should rethink our political process. I am starting to question Congress' legitimacy in overseeing the US military. I think that the Generals should report up through the Secretary of Defense and to the President without any Congressional oversight.

More politics, and the Generals salute and drive on. They have been told to increase the numbers in the Special Forces and SEAL community by a certain date. So, yes, your standards are going to go way down if you can't weed people out and have to meet a quota. That will certainly cause a lot of friction and hate in the Special Operations community. Who wants a third rate guy on their team? Who wants a girl on their team? Special Operations soldiers are not made overnight. You go through the 'meat grinder' and get pushed to the limit. Once you get there you just keep on pushing. That's when you find out what you and others are made of.

The Man in the Arena

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt, 1910.

 

[Pickle Rick]

the U.S. global war on terror is in 37 countries and has been going for 17 years with no end in sight.

You can generate enough electricity to run a clock with a potato...

See i can say shit that has nothing to do with the OP too...

 

[Mike Hagger]

To answer your question TS. A tabbed instructor(s) wrote it. It's been very much discussed, as it a should have been, behind closed doors.

As you can see even on the forums - here all portions of the military are in interesting times, a new generation, recruiting quotas not being met and the operational tempo not slowing is impacting SOF and DOD as a whole.

I'll say this, our Regiment is still full of some of the best in the military and we're still doing dangerous and successful missions of several varieties around the world. Just to put it in perspective you're not done being assessed until you're retired, so if less quality gets through the cracks it's recognized and handled accordingly.

 

[luckyshot]

The Marine corps minimum needs to go from 3 pullups to 10 and from 33 minutes to 25 minutes on the run. If you're too fat and weak to pull that off, you don't need to be in the military. Oh and having a cunt doesn't exempt you from those standards.

Wtf? You only need to be able to do three pullups to be a Marine? Lol.

I remember when I started MMA back in the early 00's I thought that military guys would have some special fighting skills... right. Some of the most uncoordinated, nonathletic dudes I've ever seen are military guys.

This ain't Sparta.

 

[Black Helicopters]

Symptom of the participation trophy generation. We have to lower standards so everyone can qualify for everything. Everyone is special. Didn't you hear?

It's because we need bodies on the battlefield, not because of liberals.

 

[sub_thug]

Commander of the Special Warfare Center, Major General Kurt Sonntag responds to careerism, cronyism, and malfeasance email.

Story: https://sofrep.com/95041/exclusive-...-to-careerism-cronyism-and-malfeasance-email/

@sub_thug where are you at man? I'm going to post your input from the other thread if you don't mind:



More politics, and the Generals salute and drive on. They have been told to increase the numbers in the Special Forces and SEAL community by a certain date. So, yes, your standards are going to go way down if you can't weed people out and have to meet a quota. That will certainly cause a lot of friction and hate in the Special Operations community. Who wants a third rate guy on their team? Who wants a girl on their team? Special Operations soldiers are not made overnight. You go through the 'meat grinder' and get pushed to the limit. Once you get there you just keep on pushing. That's when you find out what you and others are made of.

The Man in the Arena

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt, 1910.

These are our 5 Special Operations Forces truths, and they tell very clearly what should have been done:

• Humans are more important than Hardware.
• Quality is better than Quantity.
• Special Operations Forces cannot be mass produced.
• Competent Special Operations Forces cannot be created after emergencies occur.
• Most Special Operations require non-SOF assistance