Comparing the 10 UFC fights of Conor and Khabib

[shino]

That's all good ts and you put some work into this thread, but styles make fights.

 

[Codpiece]

Your facts fuckin suck, let go nuthugger












Conor’s level of competition is significantly better

Stop fiddling with your (large) doodle and answer my PM already.

 

[Wise1]

Khabib's fights were at LW. His competition was tougher by default.

Where’s that hesrightyouknow gif when you need it..

 

[Shaddows]

Blatantly is a potent word. Based on your use of the aforementioned word, I don't get the sense that you'd make a concession even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

I'll take one more approach, and presuming you'll be maintaining your contrarian disposition, will be disengaging from further discourse.

1. Conor and Khabib have spent the last 6 years competing in the UFC. As such, gauging their respective capabilities can easily be done by gauging what they've done in the UFC. One doesn't need to look at other promotions since neither fighter has competed in other promotions for over half a decade.
2. Given that both fighters have spent over half of their careers in the same promotion, it's fitting that you use the performances of their opponents in said promotion to gauge the collective quality of their opponents.
3. Given that the divisions they've competed in (FW and LW) have a healthy deal of crossover, it's not exceptionally difficult to estimate how a FW would do if they moved up to LW. Note that I'm not trying to estimate how LWs would do at FW because many of them wouldn't be able to safely make the cut. The data, however is there. Out of the top 10 FWs and LWs on Fight Matrix, 9 of 20 have competed at both divisions giving a healthy data set to analyze. It's fair to reliably say that the top 5 featherweights would almost always be competitive with LWs ranked 6th or lower.

In conclusion, Conor's dominance over top 10 competition in both divisions should make him the favorite when compared to Khabib's competitive performances over significantly less skilled opponents. He's stopped only one opponent (Michael Johnson) who cracked the top 10 at LW.

Well, for starters, you are lying.
He stopped RDA (ex champion) and before you claim he was not a top 10 (which he was), Barboza was.

But beyond that, your point is blatantly wrong. Potent word or not, it is accurate in this case.
Khabib fought people good enough to become the champion, and fought people good enough to reach #2 at the LW division.

Conor only fought a journeymen LW and LOST to him once, when said journeymen didn't even have a training camp.

So the overwhelming evidence you claim to exist are proven wrong.

Numbers are deceiving, and you try to generalize too much without checking if numbers are showing reality.

If you went by the numbers, Conor would have been KO'd by Aldo, and not the other way around.
If you went by the numbers, Conor would have been wrestlefucked by Eddie, and yet he beat the shit out of him.

So how much did your own numbers theory help Aldo or Eddie ???

No. Unless both Conor and Khabib would have fought same people about the same period of time, your numbers are a mere exercise in futility.
And you know that, reason why I feel pretty comfortable using the "strong words" to describe this sham.

Obviously you will refrain from answering, seeing that I am calling you out and you got nothing of substance that you can possibly answer with.
That is about the only answer you can give short of accepting the obvious.
Conor has only one fight at UFC's LW division, and it is against, at the eyes of many, the weakest champ this division had in a long time. Kind of like when GSP beat Bisping. he beat the champ, but it was the weakest champion that division ever had.

 

[Krixes]

Everybody bags on Conor for beating up on midgets but Max, Oretga, Porier, were/are all bigger FW's than Conor was. What does that make them???? Khabib has been bigger than every guy he's faced except for T-Bol but yet he gets a pass. Some serious hypocrisy on these boards.

 

[randumo24]

So you're a proponent of doing away with records and rankings I suppose?

How are you even able to tell how two fighters match up? I'll give you a hint...it's by viewing previous fights and gauging how they fight. I don't think you're fully considering what you're saying. People's records and past performances matter. They dictate who they fight next and how they're perceived by the public. If what I'm using is MMA Math, then MMA Math is what is used to create rankings. If this is incorrect, please give me one example of assessing a fighter's capabilities without using MMA Math.

Rankings vs how an individual fight will go are two completely different things. To analyze how a fight will go, you have to actually go in-depth on a fighter's strengths and weaknesses in the actual fight. Their striking, defense, clinch, wrestling, grappling, etc.

All you did in your OP was make a case of who should be ranked higher in a rankings list. It says nothing of who would win in an actual fight.

 

[VegetaGD]

Well, for starters, you are lying. He stopped RDA (ex champion) and before you claim he was not a top 10 (which he was), Barboza was.

Stopped means finished. Like submitted or KO'd/TKO'd. Pretty common terminology in combat sports. You know, "the referee has stopped the fight"? Yes, Khabib has defeated fighters who have ranked in the top 10. Again, stopped means finished the fight. Maybe a language barrier here?​

Conor only fought a journeymen LW and LOST to him once, when said journeymen didn't even have a training camp.

Are you intentionally excluding Conor's victory over the LW Champion Eddie Alvarez?​

If you went by the numbers, Conor would have been KO'd by Aldo, and not the other way around.

This has already been addressed per my post below:​

I like this point. I ran the same numbers adjusted to 12.12.2015 when Conor faced Aldo

Conor was 6-0, Aldo 7-0

Conor's UFC opponents were a combined 54-26 (67.50 winning %) in their own UFC fights
Aldo's UFC opponents were a combined 55-24 (69.62 winning %) in their own UFC fights

Numbers are close enough where you couldn't have made the prediction based on one man fighting significantly superior competition.

​

Obviously you will refrain from answering, seeing that I am calling you out and you got nothing of substance that you can possibly answer with.

One more time, In Khabib's 10 fight UFC run, he has stopped only one LW that cracked the top 10 according to Fight Matrix. Take a moment to review the edits in the original post because this is detailed.​

 

[fatbino]

You missed the disclaimer. I made a few errors in my first count. See below in yellow:

I did the numbers for the records for the fighters up to when they fought Conor or Khabib. I liked this better because I think it is a more accurate reflection of where the opponents were in their career when they fought. Max was a 3-2 rookie when he fought Conor. Aldo was 7-0 killer (15-0 if you include WEC). Wondered if it would change much...

Also not a fan of how you left out Strikeforce and WEC, which were both legit organizations that gave us multiple UFC champions and contenders. So I did just UFC records and then also included SF/WEC. Wasn't sure what do with Nate so I just included both his win and his loss to Conor. I also realized that Nate only ever had one fight outside of SF/WEC/UFC, and is the only fighter I can think of who fought in all 3.

Looked at this way Khabib's opponents records up to their fights w/ Khabib combine for 57-32 or 64% win rate. With SF and WEC they combine for 67-32 or 68% win rate.

Conor's opponents up to their fights w/ Conor combine for 59-27 or 69% win rate. With SF and WEC they combine for 77-30 or 76% win rate.

I lean Khabib on their upcoming fight, because of the stylistic matchup, but Conor has the better resume for sure. That said, Khabib has that nice shiny -0 at the end of his record. Super excited for this fight!

 

[VegetaGD]

I did the numbers for the records for the fighters up to when they fought Conor or Khabib. I liked this better because I think it is a more accurate reflection of where the opponents were in their career when they fought. Max was a 3-2 rookie when he fought Conor. Aldo was 7-0 killer (15-0 if you include WEC). Wondered if it would change much...

Also not a fan of how you left out Strikeforce and WEC, which were both legit organizations that gave us multiple UFC champions and contenders. So I did just UFC records and then also included SF/WEC. Wasn't sure what do with Nate so I just included both his win and his loss to Conor. I also realized that Nate only ever had one fight outside of SF/WEC/UFC, and is the only fighter I can think of who fought in all 3.

Looked at this way Khabib's opponents records up to their fights w/ Khabib combine for 57-32 or 64% win rate. With SF and WEC they combine for 67-32 or 68% win rate.

Conor's opponents up to their fights w/ Conor combine for 59-27 or 69% win rate. With SF and WEC they combine for 77-30 or 76% win rate.

I lean Khabib on their upcoming fight, because of the stylistic matchup, but Conor has the better resume for sure. That said, Khabib has that nice shiny -0 at the end of his record. Super excited for this fight!

Thanks for taking a moment to make a contribution to the thread instead of adding conjecture like many others are doing. I'll take a look at your perspective in additional detail a little later.

 

[Kael Rills]

Here's a stat for you. Khabib won every fucking round in his career. If he puts them hands on Conor, he won't fucking move.

 

[c0rbin9]

Everybody bags on Conor for beating up on midgets but Max, Oretga, Porier, were/are all bigger FW's than Conor was. What does that make them???? Khabib has been bigger than every guy he's faced except for T-Bol but yet he gets a pass. Some serious hypocrisy on these boards.

Agree but who the hell is Oretga?

 

[Metallicalabran]

I want Conor to win

but this numbers only tells that McGregor opponents were better than Khabib's oponnents, nothing else

You dont even need to be better to win an MMA fight, you only need a KO/TKO or SUB

I think Conor is the better fighter, and has the better resume but if he can't stop Khabib takedowns the russian gonna win a decision with more or less ground and pound, doesnt matter how much better was Conor or Khabib previous opposition

 

[Krixes]

Agree but who the hell is Oretga?

Yeah, that Friday night posting is gonna get some spelling mistakes.......

 

[VegetaGD]

I did the numbers for the records for the fighters up to when they fought Conor or Khabib. I liked this better because I think it is a more accurate reflection of where the opponents were in their career when they fought. Max was a 3-2 rookie when he fought Conor. Aldo was 7-0 killer (15-0 if you include WEC). Wondered if it would change much...

Also not a fan of how you left out Strikeforce and WEC, which were both legit organizations that gave us multiple UFC champions and contenders. So I did just UFC records and then also included SF/WEC. Wasn't sure what do with Nate so I just included both his win and his loss to Conor. I also realized that Nate only ever had one fight outside of SF/WEC/UFC, and is the only fighter I can think of who fought in all 3.

Looked at this way Khabib's opponents records up to their fights w/ Khabib combine for 57-32 or 64% win rate. With SF and WEC they combine for 67-32 or 68% win rate.

Conor's opponents up to their fights w/ Conor combine for 59-27 or 69% win rate. With SF and WEC they combine for 77-30 or 76% win rate.

I lean Khabib on their upcoming fight, because of the stylistic matchup, but Conor has the better resume for sure. That said, Khabib has that nice shiny -0 at the end of his record. Super excited for this fight!

Here's is visibility into the fight night ranking of the UFC opponents faced by Conor and Khabib. More along the lines of what you advocate. Also, the results of head-to-head fights by their UFC opponents.

I’m imagining a tourney between their best four UFC opponents as follows:

 

[fatbino]

Here's is visibility into the fight night ranking of the UFC opponents faced by Conor and Khabib. More along the lines of what you advocate. Also, the results of head-to-head fights by their UFC opponents.

I’m imagining a tourney between their best four UFC opponents as follows:

Interesting. I can’t believe Nate was ranked #2 at the time of their second fight. He’s good but I wouldn’t have put him as the second best LW after beating Conor.

Looking at their records, I think before the Aldo fight they have pretty even strength of schedules. But those two championship fights certainly give Conor the edge. Hard to hold it against Khabib too much, tho, as he has beaten everyone he’s fought.

With the exception of Tibau all his victories have been incredibly one sided, too. I find it funny that people criticize his fight w Iaquinta. Only on Sherdog does a score of 50-43 get shit on as a terrible performance.

By the numbers it’s hard to pick. Finishes vs dominance. Stylistically Khabib’s toughest fight was against an elite grappler and he has done very well against strikers. Conor’s toughest fight was also against an elite grappler in Mendes. That’s why stylistically I lean towards Khabib in this

 

[Shaddows]

Stopped means finished. Like submitted or KO'd/TKO'd. Pretty common terminology in combat sports. You know, "the referee has stopped the fight"? Yes, Khabib has defeated fighters who have ranked in the top 10. Again, stopped means finished the fight. Maybe a language barrier here?​

Are you intentionally excluding Conor's victory over the LW Champion Eddie Alvarez?​

This has already been addressed per my post below:​

​

One more time, In Khabib's 10 fight UFC run, he has stopped only one LW that cracked the top 10 according to Fight Matrix. Take a moment to review the edits in the original post because this is detailed.​

LOL now you want to use only (T)KO?
That is even dumber.

SOrry, in that model of yours,. GSP is the worse WW ever, when in reality he is consensus WW GOAT.
Again, that just shows numbers are deceiving and you really have no basis to use such thing to get the reality you want.
Fact: Conor did not fight anyone in the top 5 at the FW division (with full camp). Aldo had cleaned up the division and rematched the top 3...
Your numbers are deceiving and obviously pait a dumbass picture if you don't know anything beyond them.

it is akin to give someone wikipedia and claim he will know more than someone who watched all MMA events.
Who will know more about the fighters? one who sees only win average from a website or the one who watched the actual fights??

 

[LockardTheGOAT]

I appreciate the level of effort you put into this, but numbers like these mean little in the grand scheme of things.

Even though I see Conor winning as well, the fact remains is that styles make fights and when you have a Striker vs Grappler match-up, the grappler usually wins and often even dominates. Conor's three losses in MMA have come by what way again?

That's why in terms of pure, unadulterated fight evaluation, that Khabib is the Favorite. Obviously we all have our own subjective ways of imagining and predicting the fight, but...

 

[VegetaGD]

LOL now you want to use only (T)KO?
That is even dumber.

SOrry, in that model of yours,. GSP is the worse WW ever, when in reality he is consensus WW GOAT.
Again, that just shows numbers are deceiving and you really have no basis to use such thing to get the reality you want.
Fact: Conor did not fight anyone in the top 5 at the FW division (with full camp). Aldo had cleaned up the division and rematched the top 3...
Your numbers are deceiving and obviously pait a dumbass picture if you don't know anything beyond them.

it is akin to give someone wikipedia and claim he will know more than someone who watched all MMA events.
Who will know more about the fighters? one who sees only win average from a website or the one who watched the actual fights??

Your responses indicate that you’re disconnected from the context of this discussion. You seem to be really focused on winning an argument rather than absorbing an unfamiliar perspective.

The GSP comparison doesn’t apply here. GSP fought and defeated the very best in his division for a extensive period of time.

GSP could point to a resume full of top 5 fighters to validate his claim as the best.

Khabib doesn’t have that resume yet. Surely you can grasp this. So my comment about his inability to finish top competition does align with the context of this discussion. He’s never fought anyone close to as dangerous as Conor.

A prevailing narrative around this fight is that Khabib is going to take Conor down, smash him, and break him. I’ve provided decisive evidence (his lack of stoppages against top opponents) to the contrary.

It follows that, if he can’t stop Conor, that he’ll have to fight 25 minutes without getting a taste of that left hand. Do you really think Conor won’t have opportunities to hurt or finish the fight if Khabib can’t get him out of there?

Khabib kooked slow and gassed in the championship rounds with Al. You don’t think Conor can find his chin?

Before you respond impulsively, just ponder this for a moment or two, there is plenty of time to get that post count up in other threads.

Key points

- Conor has defeated better fighters
- Conor has stopped the best fighters in the game
- Khabib isn’t a finisher
- Khabib didn’t look great in his only 5 rounder

These factors should definitely be considered when predicting this fight .

 

[Shaddows]

Your responses indicate that you’re disconnected from the context of this discussion. You seem to be really focused on winning an argument rather than absorbing an unfamiliar perspective.

The GSP comparison doesn’t apply here. GSP fought and defeated the very best in his division for a extensive period of time.

GSP could point to a resume full of top 5 fighters to validate his claim as the best.

Khabib doesn’t have that resume yet. Surely you can grasp this. So my comment about his inability to finish top competition does align with the context of this discussion. He’s never fought anyone close to as dangerous as Conor.

A prevailing narrative around this fight is that Khabib is going to take Conor down, smash him, and break him. I’ve provided decisive evidence (his lack of stoppages against top opponents) to the contrary.

It follows that, if he can’t stop Conor, that he’ll have to fight 25 minutes without getting a taste of that left hand. Do you really think Conor won’t have opportunities to hurt or finish the fight if Khabib can’t get him out of there?

Khabib kooked slow and gassed in the championship rounds with Al. You don’t think Conor can find his chin?

Before you respond impulsively, just ponder this for a moment or two, there is plenty of time to get that post count up in other threads.

Key points

- Conor has defeated better fighters
- Conor has stopped the best fighters in the game
- Khabib isn’t a finisher
- Khabib didn’t look great in his only 5 rounder

These factors should definitely be considered when predicting this fight .

Sorry, but this is not a race or a war.
You are the one trying to change what you said each time.

All I noted is that you had a flaw in your assumption that number of wins (by Conor & Khabib) and their opponents is all you needed to make an asinine claim that Conor is better than Khabib.

I pointed out the flaws in your argument, and you then changed to "stopped opponents" (or, in your example, Khabib's lack of stopping his opponents).
So I noted that in this case, GSP (notorious guy who won decisions after decisions) yet is the GOAT of the division above. Plus he defeated plenty of guys who had a lot more finished than he did... and now you just try change your argument again.

Which one is it?
Will you continue lying and backtracking just to "win" the argument?

Key points:
- You have no clue if they were better opponents. They were mostly in different divisions.
- Conor leapfrogged all top 5 opponents in both division.
- Conor did not defend any his belts.
- Most Conor opponents were not at LW. Matter of fact, he fought ONCE at LW.
- The highest ranked opponents Conor fought (besides the champions) had no camp.
That's while:
- Khabib beat guys from the top 5. - Khabib would have even fought #1 contender (with full camp).Not his fault Tony got hurt.

But more importantly:
- You are looking at numbers in wiki.
- ANYONE can tell you that Watching the fights is way better.

 

[Me&MrJones]

McGregor vs Mendes round 1 showed how he'll get smashed by sambo Khabib.