Communism to Fascism to Trump: Graphing political ideology and the futility of visualization

[M3t4tr0n]

I think that's being a bit hard on Trump, he is more of a third rate despot who has no idea what he wants except to be glorified as an illustrious orange demigod.

Then he will die, and life will move on.

What we will be left I do not necessarily disagree with, that we are ready to endlessly polish the rod of obedient rulers who promise to punish our enemies, and refuse to see that our enemies are just those with other opinions.

Trump is a major symptom of this, but as one said a long time ago "He is a disease of the skin" while this plague of hatred is a disease of the bones.

I guess it would be closer to the simplification of the mindset of some of the voters who supported Trumpism.

 

[InternetHero]

I guess it would be closer to the simplification of the mindset of some of the voters who supported Trumpism.

My agreement is a mere 100%. Cheers.

 

[DespicablePeep]

You know when leftists jumped the shark when they make a nice graph to show Trump is more autoritarian than Castro, Lênin, Chavez.

Retards

Comparing dictators who killed oposition to a reality star elected president.

 

[Rod1]

I'll tag the same people that I was going to tag in my post, for additional thoughts: @Jack V Savage @TheGreatA @PolishHeadlock @Rod1

My position is the same.

Are you judging the individual or the society in which individuals lived?

Because as i said, Trump may be an authoritarian but he is institutional constrained, Chavez may have held elections, but he certainly saw them as a way to legitimize himself (he only accepted the results because he won).

 

[DespicablePeep]

Chavez may have held elections, but he certainly saw them as a way to legitimize himself (he only accepted the results because he won).

Chavez jailed his opposition.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-prisoners-idUSBRE92D0VF20130314

"Afiuni was jailed after releasing a businessman charged with subverting currency controls. Prosecutors accused her of taking a bribe, but she argued Eligio Cedeno had been held in prison while awaiting trial for longer than generally permitted under Venezuelan law.

A furious Chavez then called her a bandit on national television and said she should be given a 30-year prison sentence."

To call Trump any more autoritarian than any other recent US president shows lack of any inteligence. Like you said Trump is part of a true democratic regime, his tantrums do not end in penalties for his adverssaries

 

[Rod1]

Chavez jailed his opposition.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-prisoners-idUSBRE92D0VF20130314


To call Trump any more autoritarian than any other recent US president shows lack of any inteligence. Like you said Trump is part of a true democratic regime, his tantrums do not end in penalties for his adverssaries

Which is why i said, are you judging the person or the regime of which they are part of?

Also are we just talking about domestic policy or is foreign policy also a part of it? Because once you enter the realm of foreign policy a lot of Americans take a big penalty in the authoritarian chart, considering black sites and unilateral wars.

 

[Higus]

Why is Titoism not in the left authoritarian square?

 

[tinker_190]

So who would be in the far corners of each of these quadrants? I am curious who the most extreme of each combination would be. Also, OP, where would Bakunin fall on this? What about Calvin Coolidge and Abe Lincoln?

Also, this thing needs to be a 3D cube, with a Z-Axis for another variable. Would it be possible to achieve some sort of maximization with partial differential equations as well?

 

[grimballer]

This originally started as a post in another thread, but I ended up wasting way too much time on it - as I'm sure some of you will remind me. But I really think that attempting to graph political ideology, as pedantic, frustrating, and contradictory as it may often be, is kind of fascinating and can lead to some interesting debate. This is especially true with this style of chart, which gets circulated a lot, where apparently dissimilar persons/ideologies are forced into being closely proximal (see Hugo Chavez and Dwight Eisenhower).

This is what I came up with.

I wish I could amend some placements -- moving Obama a bit to the right, Leninism and Stalinism a bit to the right, Fascism a smidge to the left -- but sadly it's etched in digital stone.


So make your own, give it a go, make some comment about how my graph sucks.


I'll tag the same people that I was going to tag in my post, for additional thoughts: @Jack V Savage @TheGreatA @PolishHeadlock @Rod1

That chart can’t be right

We all know trump is literally hitler

 

[DespicablePeep]

Which is why i said, are you judging the person or the regime of which they are part of?

Also are we just talking about domestic policy or is foreign policy also a part of it? Because once you enter the realm of foreign policy a lot of Americans take a big penalty in the authoritarian chart, considering black sites and unilateral wars.

I was simply agreeing, but there is no authoritarian without a regime. US opposition lost any credibility by demonizing Trump beyond his true flaws.

 

[Rod1]

I was simply agreeing, but there is no authoritarian without a regime. US opposition lost any credibility by demonizing Trump beyond his true flaws.

Indeed, Trump is an idiot, but Bush Jr. was outright evil.

Yet the second somehow is now a media darling.

 

[grimballer]

Yeah, I'm from Serbia. Yugonostalgia, my experience tells me, is most pronounced with Serbs, followed by Bosnians. Serbia and Bosnia were the only places where Yugoslav identity caught on. In the case of Bosnians (more specifically Bosnian Muslims), the reason is they didn't have strong national identity before Yugoslavia's formation. In addition to that, Bosnia was most diverse and most ethnic mixing was happening there, so mixed people started identifying as Yugoslavs. As for Serbs, i can't explain it.

Anyway, Serbia and Bosnia were the biggest losers of the wars, because life is still generally worse there now in comparison to pre-war period. A switch to market economy did good for Slovenians and Croatians, so it's no wonder they aren't Yugonostalgic. In contrast to that, Bosnia and Serbia have higher unemployment than it was in the Yugoslav era. Although, reason for that mostly lies in the fact that companies in Yugoslavia were treated as a kind of social security institutions, meaning people were given jobs even when there weren't any positions available. These people were in shock when switch to market economy happened and they found themselves on the job market. They had little to no skills and high expectations. And there were a lot of them. When wars were ended and economy stabilized, these people continued their careers at lower paying jobs, where they had to work much harder than they used to, and they had to accept jobs at companies where there weren't as much worker protection as before. It's not surprising that they remember Yugoslavia as amazing.

Probably cause Russians were socialists n Germans were the Nazis

If it was other way around n Russians were ethnonationalists n Germans were revolutionary socialists then Serbs n Croats would’ve had different affiliations.

Also Catholic Church being way more influential than the orthodox one

 

[Trotsky]

You know when leftists jumped the shark when they make a nice graph to show Trump is more autoritarian than Castro, Lênin, Chavez.

Retards

Comparing dictators who killed oposition to a reality star elected president.

Grow up.

 

[glenwo2]

This is what I came up with.

I-36


BINGO!!!!

 

[DespicablePeep]

Grow up.

I'm not the guy with fetish for murderers.
The ignorance show in your chart just gets worse by the fact that you actually think you are smart.

ffs how can Trump be above guys that have killed innocent people

 

[Trotsky]

I'm not the guy with fetish for murderers.
The ignorance show in your chart just gets worse by the fact that you actually think you are smart.

ffs how can Trump be above guys that have killed innocent people

You're a moron who came into a thread about ideology to defend the leader of your cult because partisan indignation is the height of your intellectual capability. Hell, you didn't even try to feign an ideological argument.

I'm sorry that you cannot understand ideology, let alone distinguish it from your objectivist stupidity. I'm sure you just saw "authoritarian," immediately felt your kitty claws start to tingle, and darted your eyes around looking for daddy before you risked having to think for yourself.

 

[DespicablePeep]

You're a moron who came into a thread about ideology to defend the leader of your cult because partisan indignation is the height of your intellectual capability. Hell, you didn't even try to feign an ideological argument.

I'm sorry that you cannot understand ideology, let alone distinguish it from your objectivist stupidity. I'm sure you just saw "authoritarian," immediately felt your kitty claws start to tingle, and darted your eyes around looking for daddy before you risked having to think for yourself.

You lost it lol

I just looked at the graph and laughed then remembered the same guy calling Ellon Musk an idiot, laughed some more.

 

[Trotsky]

You lost it lol

I just looked at the graph and laughed then remembered the same guy calling Ellon Musk an idiot, laughed some more.

So, again, you can't make an argument and are mad that ideology can't be reduced to your reading level.

Stick to threads that contain "libtard" or "cuck" in the title.

 

[Ruprecht]

The position that struck me as odd from your chart was Castro as so low on the authoritarian scale.
If you aren't looking at civil liberties, democracy and freedom of the press, what are you looking at?

 

[DespicablePeep]

So, again, you can't make an argument and are mad that ideology can't be reduced to your reading level.

Stick to threads that contain "libtard" or "cuck" in the title.

I made the argument, a regime that kills its own lawful citizens is never less authoritarian than a democratic elected gvt.

I like your threads, it shows how brain dead people who idolize ideologies are.