Coming early and coming later to the UFC

Peter_Panner

Peter_Panner

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Sometimes on Sherdog we have debates.
Sometimes these debated focus on whether or not the fighter was ready for the "big show".
In the fore-front of your mind should be Jiri Prochazka. During his UFC debut the commentators made note of the fact that Jiri turned down a UFC invite when they offered him a deal when he was younger.
Perhaps we can have another debate about fighters coming into early VS coming into later.
Perhaps we can do that now to pass the time.

I shall lay the foundation.

Michael Chandler
- Age 34 debut in UFC. 21-5 prior to UFC
Jiri Prochazka
- Age 27 debut in UFC. 26-3-1 prior to UFC
Benson Henderson
- Age 27 debut in UFC. 12-2 prior to UFC
Glover Teixeira
- Age 32 debut in UFC. 17-2 prior to UFC
Deiveson Figueiredo
- Age 29 debut in UFC. 11-0 prior to UFC
Jon Fitch
- Age 26 debut in UFC. 11-2 prior to UFC
Daniel Cormier
- Age 34 debut in UFC. 11-0 prior to UFC

These man above, you could say that they have done well in the UFC during the time that they have had in the organization so far. Well-rounded fighters.
Getting big fights off the bat. Winning the fights. Get title fights shortly after joining the UFC. Jon Fitch being the one that had to go through a team of people to get a title shot.



On the other side of the job well done:

Edmen Shahbazyan
- Age 20 debut in UFC. 7-0 prior to UFC.
Jim Crute
- Age 22 debut in UFC. 8-0 prior to UFC.
Aspen Ladd
- Age 21 debut in UFC. 5-0 prior to UFC.
Song Yadong
- Age 19 debut in UFC. 11-4 prior to UFC.
Sage Northcutt
- Age 19 debut in UFC. 5-0 prior to UFC.
Paige VanZant
- Age 21 debut in UFC. 3-1 prior to UFC.

There are no title fights here. There are no contender fights here. There are no well-rounded games here.
For some, there are no more fights in the UFC though they are still young.



What about them though?

Max Holloway
- Age 22 debut in UFC. 4-0 prior to UFC
Charles Oliveira
- Age 20 debut in UFC. 12-0 prior to UFC
Jon Jones
- Age 20 UFC debut. 6-0 prior to UFC

This is mixed bag.
There is greatness from the beginning.
There is some loss then some greatness.
There is a lot of wear and tear and loss but then recognition and greatness.
Are these fighters the black sheep?
Are these fighters the exception?





What are your thoughts about the age of a fighter in the UFC. What are your thoughts about experience prior to the UFC?
Does it matter? Does it not make a difference?
 
It does make a difference.
Experience matters. A few interesting outliers but mostly yeah

One of the UFC's problems is how they try to force prospects into being something now when they are not all that yet.
 
To be fair Crute and Shabazyam are still prospects. Crute I believe will be champ and Shabazym has some great opportunities to improve.
 
The UFC sucks at the developing talent. The guys who made it despite not having much experience outside the org, have teams focused around the fighter. The other guys:

Paige, Sage, Song: all Alpha Male with Page and Sage bouncing around. No long term home base MMA Camp.

Shabazyn: Edmond

Crute: Sam Greco

Ladd: I don't even know who trains her, but they can't be the best if the woman still kiyas even though she doesn't have a traditional martial arts background.
 
Peter_Panner said:
18debate-tmagArticle.jpg




Sometimes on Sherdog we have debates.
Sometimes these debated focus on whether or not the fighter was ready for the "big show".
In the fore-front of your mind should be Jiri Prochazka. During his UFC debut the commentators made note of the fact that Jiri turned down a UFC invite when they offered him a deal when he was younger.
Perhaps we can have another debate about fighters coming into early VS coming into later.
Perhaps we can do that now to pass the time.

I shall lay the foundation.

Michael Chandler
- Age 34 debut in UFC. 21-5 prior to UFC
Jiri Prochazka
- Age 27 debut in UFC. 26-3-1 prior to UFC
Benson Henderson
- Age 27 debut in UFC. 12-2 prior to UFC
Glover Teixeira
- Age 32 debut in UFC. 17-2 prior to UFC
Deiveson Figueiredo
- Age 29 debut in UFC. 11-0 prior to UFC
Jon Fitch
- Age 26 debut in UFC. 11-2 prior to UFC
Daniel Cormier
- Age 34 debut in UFC. 11-0 prior to UFC

These man above, you could say that they have done well in the UFC during the time that they have had in the organization so far. Well-rounded fighters.
Getting big fights off the bat. Winning the fights. Get title fights shortly after joining the UFC. Jon Fitch being the one that had to go through a team of people to get a title shot.



On the other side of the job well done:

Edmen Shahbazyan
- Age 20 debut in UFC. 7-0 prior to UFC.
Jim Crute
- Age 22 debut in UFC. 8-0 prior to UFC.
Aspen Ladd
- Age 21 debut in UFC. 5-0 prior to UFC.
Song Yadong
- Age 19 debut in UFC. 11-4 prior to UFC.
Sage Northcutt
- Age 19 debut in UFC. 5-0 prior to UFC.
Paige VanZant
- Age 21 debut in UFC. 3-1 prior to UFC.

There are no title fights here. There are no contender fights here. There are no well-rounded games here.
For some, there are no more fights in the UFC though they are still young.



What about them though?

Max Holloway
- Age 22 debut in UFC. 4-0 prior to UFC
Charles Oliveira
- Age 20 debut in UFC. 12-0 prior to UFC
Jon Jones
- Age 20 UFC debut. 6-0 prior to UFC

This is mixed bag.
There is greatness from the beginning.
There is some loss then some greatness.
There is a lot of wear and tear and loss but then recognition and greatness.
Are these fighters the black sheep?
Are these fighters the exception?





What are your thoughts about the age of a fighter in the UFC. What are your thoughts about experience prior to the UFC?
Does it matter? Does it not make a difference?
Click to expand...

25-30 is usually someone's athletic prime depending on weight class. All the GOAT candidates have started to look worse around 30 fights or 10 years of competition.

IMO fighters usually do better when they have a loss earlier in their career. The undefeated prospects that finish everyone in a single round usually eventually get caught with a massive hole and it;s better to get that over nice and early.
 
It just depends entirely on the fighter. Even some who come across later in their careers after they've established themselves elsewhere like Will Brooks, Hector Lombard, Gilbert Melendez etc struggle once they get to the UFC.
 
Shahbazyan is a good prospect and I believe he can still improve his game, not with Edmund tho.
 
Records of current champions when they made their UFC debuts

Francis Ngannou - 5-1
Jan Blachowicz - 17-3
Israel Adesanya - 11-0
Kamaru Usman - 5-1
Alexander Volkanovski - 13-1
Aljamain Sterling - 8-0
Deiveson Figueiredo - 11-0
Amanda Nunes - 7-3
Valentina Shevchenko - 11-1
Rose Namajunas - 2-1


That's all over the place, I don't think you can read anything into it.
 
I don't think you can really draw many conclusions from this, there are just so many other factors we don't know about.
 
MardiGraSP. Debut: 22 yo. First TS: 23 yo. Champ: 24 yo.

BJ Penn. Debut: 22 yo. First TS: 23 yo. Second TS: 24 yo.Champ: 25 yo.

There are so many factor in every athete development that it's imposible to give general answer.
 
Then there's Chase Hooper, age 21, already 2-1 in the UFC, 10-1-1 overall, has to listen to the commentators say while he's fighting that he's not ready and doesn't belong here.
 
Sticko said:
Then there's Chase Hooper, age 21, already 2-1 in the UFC, 10-1-1 overall, has to listen to the commentators say while he's fighting that he's not ready and doesn't belong here.
Click to expand...

He's one that concerns me a bit to be honest, huge potential but wouldn't mind if he kickboxed for a few years to be honest.
 
Sticko said:
Then there's Chase Hooper, age 21, already 2-1 in the UFC, 10-1-1 overall, has to listen to the commentators say while he's fighting that he's not ready and doesn't belong here.
Click to expand...



I forgot about Chase.
I'd like to hear his and his camps thought process for taking a UFC deal so early.
Clearly there are massive gaps in his striking. Pretty weak body when your base is grappling. How are you to get people down to the ground in the UFC when you can't strike and your muscle mass is middle school level.

He has a fight coming up in a month. He is fighting a guy that doesn't go away and is a forward moving fighter. I looked it up and see he has never been submitted.

I'll watch the fight. :)
 
Izzy is the best example.
He turned down the ufc multiple times before signing.
I think there's a few more too.
 
Shahbazyan lost again but Chandler lost as well.

There is a 21 year old currently fighting grown men in Shooto. Tatsuro Taira is 21 years old and is 8-0. He is fighting for the Shooto championship belt in 17 days.
Not sure how tough Shooto contracts are but if he keeps winning he should have a decision to wait or come to UFC.

Untitled15.jpg
 
Sage may have entered the UFC at such a young age, but he lacked all the fundamentals to be great compare to Gsp and Penn.
 
I think an 8-12 wins and above should be required for every fighter signing with the UFC
 
Last edited:
People are too quick to give up on prospects/fighters in general

This isn't boxing where a couple of losses are career enders

Plenty of guys are thrown to the wolves early, and some look like they'll be career journeymen, alternating wins and losses against middling opponents... But then...

charles-oliveira-ufc-262-getty.jpg
 
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