Combining techniques from 3 or 4 different schools to catch a sub.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Title Fight Productions, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Just curious your guys thoughts on this. I realize most people study under one professor for most of there grappling career, or maybe two so this may not apply..........


    But for me I have been a bit more of a vagabond When it comes to grappling for different reasons, namely moving and being an MMA promoter (along with a licensed Judge and Ref) it wasn't always o.k. in my mind to train at certain gyms who had fighters training out of them ie. Conflict of interest.



    So anyways, was pretty fun tonight at class to see my girlfriend chain different techniques taught from 4 separate schools to land a sub on a purple belt dude.

    She transitioned to North South and locked in the DWL/Kimura and rolled him up onto his side(1-staple of Shamrock Submission Fighting). Her partner tucked his arm in deep and grabbed his own Gi. She then switched the grip (2-using a C grip connecting her hands learned at Dave Camarillo's) and looped her arm (hand on his wrist) all the way thru pulling it up high which prys his arm up enough (3-learned from Lotus Club BB) to spin for the far side armbar (4- learned recently from multiple degree Carlson Gracie BB) to finish the sub.


    Now I realize most of, if not all of these techniques are taught at each school eventually, or at least some are. But I believe her opponent was caught off guard by the loop switch and hand grip set up from the Kimura/DWL which were combined from two separate teachers.

    Sometimes it's rough because she will learn one armbar setup from her time with Camarillo and then as she studies under the Carlson guy, his way is almost the opposite of Camarillos so it's confusing....

    Thought it was cool to see the fusing of styles to catch a nice legit sub on a higher male opponent.

    Anyone else have this type of experience?
     
  2. oyaji poi

    oyaji poi oyaji belt

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    Calibur might have some stories as we trained in Japan at different gyms, but in my case the Internet provided a lot of stuff like this.

    Around 2009/10 I started D'arce choking everyone from half-guard (because I sucked at passing), a few guys knew it but had not used it much. Soon everyone was D'arcing. I caught my coach in a Peruvian necktie, he let me finish but I could see he was confused so we continued rolling and he put himself into the same position so I could do it again. I think I learned them both from Bradon Quick's Fade to Black DVDs.

    And then there was the time Eddie Bravo came to Japan for a seminar and it was Rubber Guard week.
     
  3. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Happens all the time. Technical warfare.
     
  4. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Yeah for sure! She incorporates different moves she has picked up all the time. Eddie Bravo's "old school" sweep she picked up from a seminar has really worked well for her to the dismay of her current coach. A very sneaky shoulder lock to armbar from a Giva Santanna seminar, the body mechanics and motions from Shamrock Submission fighting, etc.


    This was just neat to watch To me because the moves were used from places she had trained for awhile, actual philosophies of grappling instead of just something he picked up off YouTube. watching her solve the riddle of his sub defense by switching from different style of technique to different style of technique was fun.

    I could kinda see and read her mind as she worked thru locking that sub up.


    Just got me thinking about people who train exclusively at one gym and are told over and over "no, we don't do it like that, never like that, only like this!".
     
  5. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    I like using wrestling techniques to take the back from turtle position and then put my hooks in and do a bow and arrow choke
     
  6. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    I've trained at 5 different BJJ schools and 4 different Judo clubs. Learn from as many different sources as you can.
     
  7. Obscure Terror

    Obscure Terror ................................. Platinum Member

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    Stuff like this is what makes me appreciate my gym. The objective is what matters, not how you get there. If there is some weird variation on a technique that works, you share it and we test it to see if it is high percentage. There is no right or wrong way, only "did it work".

    My coach got his blue & purple through SBG and the "aliveness" principle is a core staple of training. My gym doesn't churn out identikit grapplers like some places.
     
  8. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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  9. KarateFist

    KarateFist Purple Belt

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    a bunch of weirdos
     
  10. smart.feller

    smart.feller Beer Drinker

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    I think it's great to learn from different places, coming from a bit of a sojourner perspective due to mandatory military moves...the only place where it can get tricky is when testing or demonstrating techniques that are required for stripes/promotion and if a place wants to see it "there" way...but for enhancing your overall game, I think you will have more well rounded and better grapplers...knowing 4 ways to set up an arm bar from the guard is always going to be more effective than knowing 2 ways, assuming you are equally proficient in all of the techniques.
     
  11. HomerPlata

    HomerPlata Purple Belt

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    Skillful weirdos, though, for the most part.
     
  12. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    before, different schools held on to their techniques so going around to different schools were important. But now, with youtube and the vast ammount of quality techniques that can easily be found online, i feel that having a black belt that cares about your game and guides your development is more important. I see alot of "youtube/instructional" symdrome now, people with good techniques that don't know how to build their games.
     
  13. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    I see the same.
     
  14. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Yeah, that's kinda why this was neat IMO. These weren't moved learned quickly off YouTube, haphazardly put together. Rather it was a weaving of different techniques learned and drilled y spending time with great instructors.
     
  15. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Actually I don't mind students learning from YouTube and other DVD.
    I encourage it.
    I teach my philosophy of jiu jitsu. Position hierarchy, smart way to train and roll.
    After every classes, I would put videos that I think are relevant to the topic covered.
    If they see something they like on YouTube, we can discuss the pro and the cons.
    I see myself as a university lecturer guiding someone tru their master paper.
    I don't consider myself as a primary school teacher when I spoon feed information and expect them to regurgitate the information without digesting.
     
  16. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    This is interesting to me. I personally enjoy good YouTube clips for learning for sure, but what are your thoughts on your students trying to use these moves that they "learn" off YouTube. Point being you discuss it at the end of class, trouble shoot it, and then what? I'm curious if you think without proper instruction from you, time to drill and drill the technique, positional sparing to implement the new YouTube moves, don't they get a half ass understanding of it and not enough time on the mat to actually learn (muscle memory) the technique enough to really be confident in it.

    Along with taking mat time away from the moves you are teaching from your ciriculmn?
     
  17. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    A jiu-jitsu school for hippies, in Portland, OR. They tend to win at tournaments, a lot.
     
  18. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    I am open to discussion on any techniques they have seen on youtube etc.

    I would explain how and when it would fit in their game based on my experience.

    So let say,they see a back take from top half guard for example.

    They try to make it work but failed.

    I will take the time to teach them how to make it work.

    I love this new concept: why try to pass the half guard while you could just take the back instead. It does not go against my views of Jiu Jitsu.

    BUT if they want to try to emalute a berimbolo from side control or mount to take the back, or from side control they attempt a back take by returning into the guard.

    I would explain how it works technically BUT I would explain that it goes against my views on JJ.

    Giving up side control to berimbolo to the back or returning to the guard for a "fancy" back take goes against the positional hierchacy in my opinion.

    Also, please note that I do not teach your usual shotgun style which is the traditional one technique and 2 variations or the blue print which is a network of techniques ie a game plan.

    I teach in a rotation of 10 classes. I decided to split them into positions instead of techniques. BJJ is real estate after all: location, location, location!

    Mount
    Back
    side control, KOB, north south
    guard pass
    guard sweeps
    guard subs
    top 1/2 guard
    bottom 1/2 guard
    Turtle
    Question and answers.
     
  19. Allan san

    Allan san Green Belt

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    shit man, I had no choice but to learn techniques from other schools and the internet thanks to my 'awesome' coach who gave up his passion for combat sports and focused more on making that skrilla. Here's something that'll shock you: It was a TLI affiliate. We started off mad small (like 5 of us) and it was all about making it through practice because it was so demanding. Then it became shit. The dude is such an awesome guy, too.
     
  20. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Thanks for taking the time to break it down. Not sure what you mean by a rotation of 10 classes. Do you teach moves and then in later classes expand off those moves to teach more. Like a road map of how to get where you want to go and once you learn the most direct easy route you can learn more short cuts or fancier scenic routes?:p

    Also if you don't mind answering, why do you think you don't teach in a traditional manner? Were you taught in a traditional manner? What in your opinion are the deficiencies in traditional style?

    Just curious your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013

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