Columbus day is now indigenous peoples day

[Gregolian]

You might be talking about Vespucci. He was deemed, by many, to be an imposter who stole credit from Columbus.

Wouldn't surprise me but this channel on YouTube I don't think has done a Biography on the guy.

Course, I've been binging that channel so I may have it mixed up with someone else that wasn't even an explorer.

 

[IGIT]

It's about time natives got some love

Ahoy my friend,



- IGIT

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Good. Columbus was a piece of shit.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Columbus was a scumbag even by the standards of his time.
Since Columbus and Western Civ professed to be Christians, Jesus preached to treat others like you would want to be treated, so going by the words of Jesus Columbus was a despicable person.

The problem is that many people were scumbags back in the day regardless. I discovered recently that the 5 civilized tribes (Chickasaw, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw and Creek) all sided with the confederates in their disputes with the North because they were slavers themselves and wanted to uphold slavery in the south. Imagine that eh? Indigenous tribes upholding slavery yet here we are giving a day to them. Of course the left won't apply the same standards to them because you know.... oppressed minorities and all.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Will Little Italy's around the nation burn now in protest?

As long as no one hurts Olive Garden I will stand down. You fuck with a man's unlimited bread sticks at your own peril.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Good. Columbus was a piece of shit.

It's funny how some of the relentless "different culture, hard to judge" trolls are trying to make that their sincere pro-Columbus argument ITT.

 

[deadshot138]

Thanksgiving should be renamed "Suck A Native's Cock Day."

 

[brother mouzone]

How often do conquered people get a handout from their conquerors?

 

[MicroBrew]

The problem is that many people were scumbags back in the day regardless. I discovered recently that the 5 civilized tribes (Chickasaw, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw and Creek) all sided with the confederates in their disputes with the North because they were slavers themselves and wanted to uphold slavery in the south. Imagine that eh? Indigenous tribes upholding slavery yet here we are giving a day to them. Of course the left won't apply the same standards to them because you know.... oppressed minorities and all.

Well a lot of people were scumbags during the time of the Nazis, colonialism was still alive and kicking. A lot of people are scumbags right now, just look at the CCP. So are we to excuse all scumbags all the time , because there are other scumbags around.

 

[hillelslovak87]

How often do conquered people get a handout from their conquerors?

Being quarantined in useless land while having generations of your children forced into converting to christians in indoctrination camps and schools is not much of a handout.

Neither is breaking every single treaty you signed with them before praising your own character in giving them a leg up.

Fucking Romans were more benevolent with many of the peoples they dealt with...........

 

[MicroBrew]

Why do I not get this day off then?

I DEMAND AN ANSWER!

Well there you go, you have discovered an issue to champion to your local government.

 

[MicroBrew]

it's all symbolic. it's irrelevant. only superficial people that take things as they are at first sight believe it makes a world of difference. Look at @MicroBrew 's avatar. Did toppling Saddam's statue make Iraq into a better place lmao. The US sent it several centuries backwards.

It does make a difference , which is why there are people on both sides passionately opposing or supporting the statues being taken down or remaining in place. Symbolism is not an incosequential feature, it is very important in human culture.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

So are we to excuse all scumbags all the time , because there are other scumbags around.

Im not the one making a case for the removal of statues as some sort of symbolic victory. You are. The onus is on you to propose a guideline for what constitutes something positively symbolic in removing a certain jerk over another jerk.

For instance. Im Greek. No matter how disputed he is with Macedonians, Alexander the great is a National hero to us. In Toronto we have a statue in the heart of Greek town dedicated to him. I promise you that Alexander is the source of much more blood shed and rape than say........Robert E Lee buy orders of magnitude.

What say you? Should we remove Alexander the greats statue?
Edit: The bust in question. It's more like a shrine than anything.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Im not the one making a case for the removal of statues as some sort of symbolic victory. You are. The onus is on you to propose a guideline for what constitutes something positively symbolic in removing a certain jerk over another jerk.

For instance. Im Greek. No matter how disputed he is with Macedonians, Alexander the great is a National hero to us. In Toronto we have a statue in the heart of Greek town dedicated to him. I promise you that Alexander is the source of much more blood shed and rape than say........Robert E Lee buy orders of magnitude.

What say you? Should we remove Alexander the greats statue?
Edit: The bust in question. It's more like a shrine than anything.

Alexander the Great wasn't raping and pillaging native tribes in Canada, tribes often still in existence and who have many members still alive from the brutal periods of forced relocation and religious conversion.

That's a key difference between an Alexander the Great statue in Toronto and say, a statue of Robert E. Lee in former slave states, or Columbus day in a nation with a terrible record of treating indigenous people.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Alexander the Great wasn't raping and pillaging native tribes in Canada, tribes often still in existence and who have many members still alive from the brutal periods of forced relocation and religious conversion.

That's a key difference between an Alexander the Great statue in Toronto and say, a statue of Robert E. Lee in former slave states, or Columbus day in a nation with a terrible record of treating indigenous people.

Let's gloss over how weak this argument is take away your main point.

You are right. They are different. Alexander is WAY FUCKING WORSE. You are clearly setting a boundary between their atrocities because they took place in different parts of the world. So would a Robert E Lee statue be okay anywhere else other than the origin point of said atrocities? Is this actually the compass we are using?

 

[MicroBrew]

Im not the one making a case for the removal of statues as some sort of symbolic victory. You are. The onus is on you to propose a guideline for what constitutes something positively symbolic in removing a certain jerk over another jerk.

For instance. Im Greek. No matter how disputed he is with Macedonians, Alexander the great is a National hero to us. In Toronto we have a statue in the heart of Greek town dedicated to him. I promise you that Alexander is the source of much more blood shed and rape than say........Robert E Lee buy orders of magnitude.

What say you? Should we remove Alexander the greats statue?
Edit: The bust in question. It's more like a shrine than anything.

Confederate statues are an overt symbol of White power. They were erected as a big old Fcuk You to African Americans. They were erected years after the war ended, with many being erected in the 20th century, during the time of Jim Crow.

Southern states erected many of the monuments to Confederate leaders and soldiers that are now the focus of national protests long after the civil war, at the height of the Jim Crow system of racial segregation and repression and later during years of civil rights protest and reform.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/13/jefferson-davis-statue-removal-kentucky-jim-crow

Confederate statues are no different to statues and symbols honoring Nazi leaders.

 

[Bargey]

We all know it won’t cure racism you silly goose. We’re just finally figuring out that the maybe the world will be a better place without monuments and memorials to scum bags

Columbus was a scumbag because....?

 

[hillelslovak87]

Let's gloss over how weak this argument is take away your main point.

You are right. They are different. Alexander is WAY FUCKING WORSE. You are clearly setting a boundary between their atrocities because they took place in different parts of the world. So would a Robert E Lee statue be okay anywhere else other than the origin point of said atrocities? Is this actually the compass we are using?

Alexander the Great never stepped foot on this continent. If you want to have conversations about him in the places he conquered, have at it. What a weird thing for you to propose.

It's not at all the same as a traitor to this nation being memorialized in statues when the descendents of the people they fought to enslave have to live around these memorials.

I mean, if Alexander had fought to enslave blacks in America, you'd likely be making the argument in reverse, bringing up Genghis Khan or something........

 

[terrapin]

The problem is that many people were scumbags back in the day regardless. I discovered recently that the 5 civilized tribes (Chickasaw, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw and Creek) all sided with the confederates in their disputes with the North because they were slavers themselves and wanted to uphold slavery in the south. Imagine that eh? Indigenous tribes upholding slavery yet here we are giving a day to them. Of course the left won't apply the same standards to them because you know.... oppressed minorities and all.

you guys keep comparing venerating one single person who was a monster with an entire group of people not all of whom were monsters.

Columbus was a murdering raping piece of garbage but some native americans murdered and raped so its all sixes is kind of a shitty argument don't you think?

 

[MicroBrew]

Let's gloss over how weak this argument is take away your main point.

You are right. They are different. Alexander is WAY FUCKING WORSE. You are clearly setting a boundary between their atrocities because they took place in different parts of the world. So would a Robert E Lee statue be okay anywhere else other than the origin point of said atrocities? Is this actually the compass we are using?

The difference is the connection between Alexander the Great and contemporary groups. The power structure behind Alexander has disappeared long ago. That power structure is not around today still ruling over a demographic it ruled over from Alexander's time.