1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »
Violence/Genocide: Do not condone violence or genocide on a person or group of people. You are free to attack a person or groups ideas but you are crossing the line when calling for violence. This will be heavily enforced in threads with breaking news involving victims.

Columbus day is now indigenous peoples day

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by John Mabrey, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. badascan Red Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    9,851
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    On the Water
    There's a replica ship that Columbus used to cross the Atlantic (one of the 3, can't remember) I've seen on the Great Lakes. It's absolutely mind blowing how much smaller it is than I thought... Pack that full of grubby sailors and set out into the unknown? It's impossible to imagine! Those fellas were tough as they come or desperate...

    I'm on a 700 foot steel ship and the Atlantic is daunting... Theirs was probably 60 feet and wooden...

    The day will remain Columbus day (not that it matters) and indigenous people can have every other day that's not taken... Only to have them taken back, one by one... I kid, I kid, they can have every/any open day...
     
    Natural Order and FierceRedBelt like this.
  2. Hatorade Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    They enslaved the smaller tribes around them and used them for human sacrifices.
    Guaranteed if the Aztecs journeyed up north and crossed paths with some far more primitive peoples like the Alaskan natives (different ethnicity), or made it to Easter island and crossed paths with Polynesians (different race), they would have exploited them no different than the Spanish did to the Aztecs.

    Also, race isn't even a scientific term. The concept of race is not supported by genetics.
     
  3. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    What if someone blamed Latvians for the English colonizing half the world? The English and Latvians are both White and share the same linguistic group. Natives are all descended from the same race but there are different ethnic groups amongst them. So to say "they enslaved" is treating them all as one monolithic entity.

    What would you say if someone tried to excuse away British Pakistani grooming gangs by pointing out that there are White pedos who prey on White children, because that is what you guys on the right are doing when you use Native groups fighting Native groups as justification to excuse away European colonialism.

    When the Europeans enslaved, slaughtered and ethnically cleansed Natives, they did it to any Native, they didn't just find out which Native groups were warmongering. So if we use the rightwing logic of whataboutism in regards to native on native violence, then not only did some native groups suffer violence from other native groups, but these vicitmized peoples also then suffered under Europeans. What you guys are saying is that since these native people were vicitmized by other native groups, it's fine for White to also vicitmize them, so they get victimized again.

    On the question of race and genetics: first we have to define what race is, and there is no precise definition for it. But be that as it may, 'race' is supported by genetics. One can look at the Haplogroups and Autosomal DNA of the average ethnic Swede and easily differentiate him/her from the average ethnic Japanese or ethnic Nigerian or ethnic Ayamara. The Univ of Denmark genotyped the DNA of Kennewick Man and found he was genetically closest to Amerindians, especially Pacific NorthWest Amerindians.
     
    Khabib Khanate and shockaholic12 like this.
  4. Hatorade Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    I'm not right wing. Knock it off with that shit. it makes you sound ignorant as fuck when you assume anyone that has a different opinion than you has different politics. We're talking about history with a bit of science, not politics.

    what the Spanish did to the natives in the America's was more humane than what they already did to each other = fact.

    Same with colonization in Africa.

    Historically, more advanced civilizations have exploited less advanced ones. What does it matter if one is white and one is brown? Had the Aztecs wiped out some pigmy tribe in South America that was almost as far separated from them genetically as the Europeans that conquered them, nobody would be crying about it.

    Furthermore, one of the unique aspects of the conquests was that breeding with the natives was encouraged. Cortes knew that once the Europeans shared blood with the natives, colonization would be much easier.

    The part about the conquest that is looked down upon so much more than the Europeans colonization of places like India, the Middle East or China is that most of the indigenous population died from disease from having no immunity to things like measles, smallpox, or even the common cold. Unfortunately, nature doesn't give a shit about what's right or wrong.
     
  5. djacobox372 Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    25,147
    Likes Received:
    3,245
    You need to read more history.

    Do you think all the babies and women who were slaughtered by natives had it coming?

    Who do you think was first to behead a baby or toss one into a fire, the natives or the white settlers?

    People suck, and they do bad things. This is universal, race doesn't enter into it. I would put up the moral code of the protestant settlers against any of the native groups they encountered.
     
  6. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    You are rightwing , and are you using rightwing whataboutism. You guys on the right always make excuses and try to justify the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the natives. Which is why most non Whites vote for the Dems.

    No the Spanish were far worse , because they waged wholesale genocide and ethnic cleansing. And it makes a huge fucking difference if it is a different race doing it . The natives killing each other are not going to make their race go extinct, while the Spanish killing and enslaving the natives will make their race go extinct.

    Don't give me that shit about race not mattering, because it matters for every group in the world. My family fights amongst themselves but you can bet if a non family member started fighting with us, we would see it differently.

    They encouraged mixing to genocide the natives and spead the European dna. It was genocide via the bedroom. It was an attempt to breed the native out and create new communities that would split up the natives. The Spanish and Portugese created the caste system to divide the non Whites.

    You are excusing away the genocide of the natives as just nature, in which case one can excuse away the holocaust, ISIS, pedo gangs, slavery, rape etc.. Somehow I bet you would have a big problem if Africans, Chinese, Arabs etc.. took over Europe or North America and wiped out Whites.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021 at 12:08 PM
  7. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    What on earth are you on about, who said they had it comming?

    So since the natives killed each other, it is fine for Whites to genocide them, that is what you are saying. So not only did some natives suffer under other natives but they now suffer under Whites too. This is like saying since ISIS killed fellow Iraqis, it's fine for the US to also kill Iraqis. The mental gymnastic and excuses you guys come up with is just amazing. With your logic we can justify Nazi behavior also.

    The Europeans were worse than any native group, because the Europeans waged continent wide genocide and ethnic cleansing. The natives actually hepled the early settlers and in return they were stabbed in the back. The natives that Columbus encountered were friendly , which he himself noted.

    Why don't you guys who keep defending Colmbus and European colonization just come out and say it that you are fine with genocide. Stop beating around the bush with excuses and whatboutism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021 at 12:18 PM
    Khabib Khanate likes this.
  8. Khabib Khanate Hashashiyan Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    45,979
    Likes Received:
    15,210
    Location:
    Pleasure Dome
    Well can't deny there's truth to that. As Huntington once said:
     
    MicroBrew likes this.
  9. Hatorade Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Stopped reading after the first sentence. I'm a mixed race non-religous Bernie Sanders supporter from The Pacific Northwest that's married to an immigrant. I side more with the right on Law enforcement and a lot of the woke culture bullshit but that's about it. I'm left leaning socially, and very far left fiscally.

    you're what makes the middle hate the left more than mouth breathing hicks on the right that they have zero in common with. Basically, you're a pompous prick know-it-all that's untethered from reality.

    If you're just some college kid, I get it. However, if you're over the age of 30, you're a straight up fucking clown.

    Just being honest with you ‍

    Edit....actually read your post for shits and giggles ....LOL at comparing the holocaust to natives dying over a few hundred years from diseases they had no immunity to. That's some funny shit right there. You just sound like a self hating worm with no identity. That's gotta suck man
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021 at 12:36 PM
  10. 2fast2see Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,753
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Today the ultimate bad guy is the "white man."

    An Asian will get ignored if they bring up being attacked by the black man or any other person of color.(recent news about this completely ignored who was attacking Asians)

    If it doesn't fit the "white man is the bad guy" narrative, it's dismissed.

    They Left can't make money or get votes from that!





     
  11. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    So what if you are mixed race, what the eff does that matter? As if non Whites can't be racist. And anyone can claim to be anything on the net. Amusing how you are pulling the race card . Just as crigeny as "but I have Black friends" bullshit.

    And so what if you are married to an immigrant. White supremacist pundit John Derbyshire is married to a Chinese woman. The Germans allied with the Japanese against their fellow Germanic English.

    I am soo glad that America's indegenous population is rising, due to south of the border emmigrants , and it pisses off people like you.

    The only thing you have proven here is that you are fine with genocide, slavery and ethnic cleansing.
     
  12. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    White Nationalists are the ones being attacked, not White people per see. But to the rightwing attacking White nationalism is attacking Whites, because the right thinks they and only they own this country and they are mad that natives from South of the border are moving to America, posing a demograhic threat to White power.
     
  13. Hatorade Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    nah man.
    My mom literally entered this country illegally from Mexico in 1973, and I'm perfectly cool with that.

    Tell us more about how I'm a white supremacist that condones "Genocide, slavery, and ethnic cleansing" because I pointed out that nature is what really killed 600 million indigenous people. How inconsiderate of the Spanish for not bringing vaccines and antibiotics. They were probably Trump supporters.

    Also, funny how you make everything about race, then when I reveal to you that I'm an ethnic minority, you claim it doesn't matter.

    ^This asshole is literally the reason guys like Bill Mauer can make a living off of talking shit or making fun of other liberals.

    Keep going.......this is some funny shit right here. Show us how woke you really are. I'm not convinced you're as virtuous as you're projecting.
     
  14. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    Mexico is a nationality , not a race, so go pull that crap with someone else who is ignorant of the region. Mexico has a caste system, with Whites at the top, Mestizos in the middle and Amerindians on the bottom. So ethnic minority doesn't mean diddly squat. Mexico , like the rest of Latin America, is racist against full blooded Amerindians.

    The Europeans killed the Natives, but you are trying to whitewash that. And you are trying to excuse genocide and slavery but don't have the balls to actually come out and say it, so you play this little disengenous dance of condoning it but trying to pass it off as nature.

    I have no reason to even believe you claimed ancestry, because you lie about not being a rightwinger when I know from your posting history you are one. But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you have some Mexican ancestry, you could be Mestizo or White, so your attempt to pull the race card to insulate yourself is not going to fly.
     
    Loiosh likes this.
  15. Hatorade Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Race in general is bullshit.
    I claim to be an ethnic minority. I am visibly of mixed race by your definition. I have indigenous blood pumping through my veins.

    I doubt you even speak Spanish, much less understand the cast sytem in Mexico. You sound like a white woman to me, but this is an MMA forum, so it's not likely.

    I'm not "white washing" anything. I'm simply stating that the genocide you speak of was almost entirely the result of disease, and not Spanish steel. I don't condone violence in general, much less genocide. You seem to have this issue of telling people who they are and what they belive be because you can't wrap your mind around actual history. Seriously, read a fucking book kid. You're getting absolutely destroyed on here because you're trying to inject your emotionally biased opinions over historical facts. When you start comparing Spaniards having children with indigenous women to Nazis systematically rounding up ethnic Jews and gassing them by the millions, nobody with their head on straight is going to take you serious regardless of their politics.

    That's free advice and very good advice. Go for a walk and calm your ass. There's probably a great deal of things in your life for you be angry about that supercede losing an argument on the Internet.
     
  16. A Very Serious Cat Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    11,251
    Likes Received:
    5,047
    Location:
    New Zild
    Whenever I see this thread I'm always reminded of this logic

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Natural Order Cosmic Alpha

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    11,107
    Likes Received:
    10,152
    Location:
    North
    Just LOL @ this being your logic.
     
    Khabib Khanate likes this.
  18. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    You are a rightwinger as seen with your post history but you lied.

    You can claim whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that you are condoning genocide and making excuses for it. Even if you have some indegenous blood, that means nothing as Mestizos can be racist against full blooded Amerindians. Plenty of Mestizos identify as White or distance themselves from Natives, because they consider full blooded Amerinds to be inferior. In Bolivia the Mestizos and Whites ganged up against the full blooded Ayamara. So don't think you can pull this bullshit brown race card as some sort of teflon coating that protects you from being seen as someone who excuses the genocide of natives.

    I understand the caste system, Whites (Criollos and Euro Whites) on top , Mestizos with varying degrees of White ancestry in the middle and Indios at the bottom.

    It is a moronic argument to claim that because the Spanish conquistadores had children with Amerindian women , they were not genocidal. You realize invaders throughtout history have raped conquered women, taken them as concubines and mistresses. If you have to claim that your are more informed then you really aren't. Some Germans in the Wehrmacht had Jewish ancestry and Jews had Germanic ancestry.

    The Jews in Hitler’s Military
    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-12-24-mn-12209-story.html


    Brazil's elite who embarked on a program to Whiten the Brazilian populace had some native ancestry.
    Some old established White South African families who supported Apartheid have minor Colored ancestry, (proven with genetic testing)
    King Leopold's Belgian used Blacks to wage genocide on other Blacks.
    ISIS had a few Kurds , even though it waged genocide on the Kurds.

    So spare me this bullshit attempt by you to use the brown 'race' card. [/quote]
     
  19. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44,317
    Likes Received:
    11,205
    Location:
    Takeshi's Castle
    When it is interneccine fighting, even if one side wins, the same race still exists. When it is Whites exterminating Natives, the later will cease to exist as a race.
     
  20. Hatorade Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    we know
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.