Cody Garbrandt vs. Augusto Mendes

[Machote]

N

Cerrone is not a pure BJJ guy that used to mostly compete in that IBJJF shit.

Maia, Jacare, they're old school BJJ guys, so they're definitely better than this new generation of Miyao bros/Mendes bros wannabes.

I have high hopes for Garry Tonon too. Those IBJJF guys don't like him cause they'll always say he'll get disqualified whenever he reaps the knee and tap someone out with a heel hook. IBJJF fools hates heel hooks.

Not every ibjjf competitors focus their game around berimbolos and worm guard, especially not the bigger guys. I don't think bolos and worm guard was that big of a thing when tanquinho was competing.
I'm looking forward to see how buchecha and rodolfo adapt their Bjj to mma when they start fighting. Rodolfo showed some nice takedowns last adcc.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

tanquinho didnt even shot one single td, why is people talking about his bjj over his fighting IQ?

 

[randomg1t]

I don't think we'll see anymore BJJ guys making it big in MMA. The reason is nobody now a days wants to play the good old school game of takedown, pass, and submit. This new generation of BJJ guys only care about pulling each other's pants, spinning upside down doing that lame ass berimbolo shit, stalling with that stupid worm guard crap, and doesn't care to learn takedown because all they want to do is butt scoot.

Old school BJJ will always work. But this generation of modern BJJ hipsters will never do well in MMA. They're too used to butt scooting, pulling off a dumb berimbolo, and they're too concern with wearing overpriced garbage gi such as that shoyoroll crap.

every single top blackbelt competitor would sweep you, pass your guard, mount you, and choke you out. you would not pass their guard. not a single one.

 

[Zankou]

tanquinho didnt even shot one single td, why is people talking about his bjj over his fighting IQ?

What's he going to do? If you are a significantly superior wrestler AND striker, it's extremely hard to lose against a superior BJJ player who has inferior wrestling and striking.

The matchup was terrible, as said from the beginning.

TBH it's a boring debate, but I'll go out there and say that the problem with 98% of BJJ-based fighters isn't their wrestling, it's their atrocious striking. BJJ fighters with elite striking are powerhouse contenders. Werdum, Silva, Jacare, Aldo, etc. But you get the guys with plodding slow hands + short arms + poor athleticism, there's just no chance. Even guys with legit sick wrestling/judo credentials struggle hard for the takedown in MMA. An 'old school' BJJ guy is just going to get ass-reamed unless he can legit strike at a high level. That's the game nowadays.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

What's he going to do? If you are a significantly superior wrestler AND striker, it's extremely hard to lose against a superior BJJ player who has inferior wrestling and striking.

The matchup was terrible, as said from the beginning.

TBH it's a boring debate, but I'll go out there and say that the problem with 98% of BJJ-based fighters isn't their wrestling, it's their atrocious striking. BJJ fighters with elite striking are powerhouse contenders. Werdum, Silva, Jacare, Aldo, etc. But you get the guys with plodding slow hands + short arms + poor athleticism, there's just no chance. Even guys with legit sick wrestling/judo credentials struggle hard for the takedown in MMA. An 'old school' BJJ guy is just going to get ass-reamed unless he can legit strike at a high level. That's the game nowadays.

Well, he could always go Maia on people.. He'll roger with his atrocious stand up beat quite a few guys, till he ran with mo's head and Tim Kennedy, and there is no shame losing to kennedy...

I don't agree with you in this subject, grapplers need To grapple, you are telling me that is better to stay on the outside trying to outbox an ex professional boxer rather than at least fish for some counters tds or go for your own while you are a Bjj superstar with rudementary striking?

I'm sorry that makes zero sense...

 

[number9dream]

Well, he could always go Maia on people.. He'll roger with his atrocious stand up beat quite a few guys, till he ran with mo's head and Tim Kennedy, and there is no shame losing to kennedy...

I don't agree with you in this subject, grapplers need To grapple, you are telling me that is better to stay on the outside trying to outbox an ex professional boxer rather than at least fish for some counters tds or go for your own while you are a Bjj superstar with rudementary striking?

I'm sorry that makes zero sense...

I think trying to take down wrestlers with wrestling techniques is a recipe for gassing. I agree tho, they should be grappling.

I think at that point using more unorthodox takedowns makes sense... trying to force a single or double not so much.

 

[Zankou]

Well, he could always go Maia on people.. He'll roger with his atrocious stand up beat quite a few guys, till he ran with mo's head and Tim Kennedy, and there is no shame losing to kennedy...

I don't agree with you in this subject, grapplers need To grapple, you are telling me that is better to stay on the outside trying to outbox an ex professional boxer rather than at least fish for some counters tds or go for your own while you are a Bjj superstar with rudementary striking?

I'm sorry that makes zero sense...

How many elite professional boxers are competing in MMA? Guys with genuine elite competitive striking backgrounds? Seriously, give me a count.

Now, compare that to how many elite wrestlers/judoka are competing in MMA?

Striking versus wrestling, which has a more intensive and elite presence in MMA? Which is the 'weaker spot'? As a BJJ player, think this over. Deeply. Then go look at the BJJ players who (as I named them) have ACTUALLY dominated in modern MMA.

As far as using your BJJ skills, you are FAR more likely to be able to hit TDs if you can legit threaten with strikes. That's why GSP was such a killer. Most BJJ guys couldn't threaten a damp bedsheet with strikes, and so how do they think they are going to consistently take down guys with elite wrestling backgrounds? It's retarded. You are going up against the single biggest strength of 2/3 of the competition.

It is sad this even has to be pointed out. Guys are living in the past, in UFC 1, where a BJJ guy would be facing a pure striker who can't defend takedowns to save his life, not the modern UFC reality that in 2/3rds of your fight you will be matched up against an ass-whipping wrestler.

 

[kenpeters8]

every single top blackbelt competitor would sweep you, pass your guard, mount you, and choke you out. you would not pass their guard. not a single one.

You must be mad because your garbage shoyoroll gis are overpriced. Hahaha.

 

[kenpeters8]

N


Not every ibjjf competitors focus their game around berimbolos and worm guard, especially not the bigger guys. I don't think bolos and worm guard was that big of a thing when tanquinho was competing.
I'm looking forward to see how buchecha and rodolfo adapt their Bjj to mma when they start fighting. Rodolfo showed some nice takedowns last adcc.

Rodolfo's game is more old school. He should do better than the average ibjjf dorks in MMA.

 

[Steve08]

Good call on the left hook.

Still sucksto see bjj guys go into Mma and get ko'd though

Was actually a 4-3-4 with Garbrandt stepping with the opposite foot as his punch, meaning he opened up with a right hook in orthodox, switched to a southpaw left hook from the rear hand which did graze Tanq but mostly served the purpose of raising his head into the final right hook, then finished him with the stepping right hand back into orthodox stance as Tanq stood upright. To be honest, I was a little surprised by how right hand-centric Cody's approach was last night compared to his performance against Brimage, where he was able to take control of numerous exchanges with the counter left hook. Either way, he looked good and at 24 years of age seems to have quite the upside. I'm keeping my eyes on that dude.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

How many elite professional boxers are competing in MMA? Guys with genuine elite competitive striking backgrounds? Seriously, give me a count.

Now, compare that to how many elite wrestlers/judoka are competing in MMA?

Striking versus wrestling, which has a more intensive and elite presence in MMA? Which is the 'weaker spot'? As a BJJ player, think this over. Deeply. Then go look at the BJJ players who (as I named them) have ACTUALLY dominated in modern MMA.

As far as using your BJJ skills, you are FAR more likely to be able to hit TDs if you can legit threaten with strikes. That's why GSP was such a killer. Most BJJ guys couldn't threaten a damp bedsheet with strikes, and so how do they think they are going to consistently take down guys with elite wrestling backgrounds? It's retarded. You are going up against the single biggest strength of 2/3 of the competition.

It is sad this even has to be pointed out. Guys are living in the past, in UFC 1, where a BJJ guy would be facing a pure striker who can't defend takedowns to save his life, not the modern UFC reality that in 2/3rds of your fight you will be matched up against an ass-whipping wrestler.

Look, im not saying you should jump in there with Royce striking skills, cleary wasnt the case fo tanquinho either, but lets not talk in general and talk about his fight, tanquinho is 32 hes been a pro fighter for how long? there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to try to your hands on mma, but if you havent done striking since a young age, you are hardly going to become an elite striker unless you are one atheltic SOB a la Jones... Is that simple, you either become a techincal striker or at least become a powerful brawler, which is what many wrestlers do. JH almost made a hole in Martin Kampmann's head with a punch, there is not a single change you can tell me that JH was even in the same ball park in technical striking. So you are 32 years old, you are offered a chance to fight in the UFC aginst this boxer/wrestler with 6 days notice, wtf are you supposed to do? turn it donw? may be you needed the cash... so tanquinho takes the fight, you are really telling me that his best shot was to stay on the outside and box the pro boxer?

Again, Demain Maia got back to the hot spot because he started to grapple again, is he setting up more his takedowns with k1 level of striking? not really dude perfected 1 td and seems to be getting everyone down with it, single leg, if it fails he pulls guard and stands back up, sure he made progress on his striking too, and he has a heavy left hand, but is not his striking whats making the difference, its his grappling, same with kahabib. Did Roger gracie get incredible good with his striking? no he good old clinch and trip people. Is this going to work for every single BJJ figther in the world? probably not, but for fuck sakes, its better to go down at least trying to implement something that you are really good at than trying to do something that you really suck at and the other dude is really really good at.

 

[Zankou]

If your point is that an older guy like Tanquinho lacks the tools to be an elite modern MMA competitor, then you could've said that a lot more simply.

Using sub-par wrestling skills against Garbrandt is no more of a useful prospect than using sub-par striking skills. If anything, you probably need to combine your sub-par striking with sub-par wrestling to have a hope at getting to the ground. There's no way around it. If he doesn't want to be taken down, you aren't going to make that happen without strikes in the mix.

Your last sentence is exactly right: "its better to go down at least trying to implement something that you are really good at than trying to do something that you really suck at and the other dude is really really good at." The problem is that haplessly shooting TD's against a powerhouse wrestler is precisely what you are suggesting is a terrible idea, following your own logic.

It's possible to become the elusive 'great takedowns/great bjj' guy, like Maia (who also has decent technical striking -- just super un-athletic). But what I'm suggesting is that such a guy is far rarer in modern MMA, and far less successful, than the 'great striking/great bjj' guys. And if you think about why that is, it makes perfect sense. Without a deep background, you are basically never going to catch up to all the elite wrestlers that pervade MMA, and even if you did, the result is you'd usually just be stuck with a stalemate on the feet. . . . While the other guy beats the shit out of you with strikes.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

If your point is that an older guy like Tanquinho lacks the tools to be an elite modern MMA competitor, then you could've said that a lot more simply.

Using sub-par wrestling skills against Garbrandt is no more of a useful prospect than using sub-par striking skills. If anything, you probably need to combine your sub-par striking with sub-par wrestling to have a hope at strong BJJ on the ground.

Your last sentence is exactly right: "its better to go down at least trying to implement something that you are really good at than trying to do something that you really suck at and the other dude is really really good at." The problem is that haplessly shooting TD's against a powerhouse wrestler is precisely what you are suggesting is a terrible idea, following your own logic. And in that, you are right.

It's possible to become the elusive 'great takedowns/great bjj' guy, like Maia (who also has decent technical striking -- just super un-athletic). But what I'm suggesting is that he is far rarer in modern MMA, and far less successful, than the 'great striking/great bjj' guys. And if you think about why that is, it makes perfect sense.

no point was that he had better odds trying to take down his opponent than trying to out-strike him, at least he has been doing that for most of his life, that was all I was implying, wasnt trying to get a phylosophical approach in general temrs from elite bjj players transitioning to mma...

 

[Zankou]

I don't think you can separate the two at the level of competition you see in modern elite MMA. You are going to have to take an appreciable risk on striking exchanges to meaningfully set up your takedowns. If you can't survive that kind of exchange, you are just going to lose. Shooting a takedown without any form of real setup isn't any kind of answer in MMA, any more than it would be in normal wrestling itself. You might as well not even enter the fight if that's your strategy ... you'll just get your ass beat/make a fool of yourself.

 

[Steve08]

Shooting a takedown without any form of real setup isn't any kind of answer in MMA, any more than it would be in normal wrestling itself. You might as well not even enter the fight if that's your strategy ... you'll just get your ass beat/make a fool of yourself.

For sure. It's kinda remarkable to me how many MMA fighters seem to just dive for the opponent's legs with nothing in the way of a set-up even in 2016 in the UFC. Eddie Alvarez's last fight was a good example; besides ducking in and taking Pettis's back off an attempted wheel kick, he would literally just change levels and run for Pettis's legs until they hit the fence, then he would pull and pull at his legs until he got him down, and he still managed to complete several takedowns despite it. And this was two top-10 ranked guys at 155, not random local fighters at 265. The only real difference is that Alvarez was obviously confident enough to trade a few strikes with Pettis, and was able to use feinting and pressure to cut off the cage nicely in the first round-- he didn't simply walk through punches and kicks to do that, in other words.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I don't think you can separate the two at the level of competition you see in modern elite MMA. You are going to have to take an appreciable risk on striking exchanges to meaningfully set up your takedowns. If you can't survive that kind of exchange, you are just going to lose. Shooting a takedown without any form of real setup isn't any kind of answer in MMA, any more than it would be in normal wrestling itself. You might as well not even enter the fight if that's your strategy ... you'll just get your ass beat/make a fool of yourself.

I guess we have to agree to disagree, I may agree with you that he shouldve rejected the fight, but that was not the case.

I would rather tell my fighter to good old stomp and clinch and see what happens than staying on the outside with a pro boxer, specially if you striking sucks.

 

[560ti]

I don't agree with you in this subject, grapplers need To grapple, you are telling me that is better to stay on the outside trying to outbox an ex professional boxer rather than at least fish for some counters tds or go for your own while you are a Bjj superstar with rudementary striking?

I'm sorry that makes zero sense...

His original post was pretty clear (I don't understand the confusion). Against a good wrestler you have to engage in striking before you can set up the eventual grappling exchange (he was literally getting no where in the striking which is why the takedowns attempts didn't happen). Mendes trains at a legit camp and knows this...... (I'm training at a good camp for a pro debut and I can tell with you a fact that Zankou is 100% correct)

 

[BJJ_Rage]

His original post was pretty clear (I don't understand the confusion). Against a good wrestler you have to engage in striking before you can set up the eventual grappling exchange (he was literally getting no where in the striking which is why the takedowns attempts didn't happen). Mendes trains at a legit camp and knows this...... (I'm training at a good camp for a pro debut and I can tell with you a fact that Zankou is 100% correct)

thing is, cody was a better boxer than a wrestler, dude had like 6 ko/tkos before this fight, tanqinho was getting light up on the outside, may be some shooting for his life couldve gotten at least a clinch, rather than staying on the outside.

on your case, good, you should work on your striking as much as you can, best of lucks to your pro debut.

 

[560ti]

thing is, cody was a better boxer than a wrestler, dude had like 6 ko/tkos before this fight, tanqinho was getting light up on the outside, may be some shooting for his life couldve gotten at least a clinch, rather than staying on the outside.

The problem with mendes (reason why he shouldn't of taken this fight) was either approach would of ended in the same result (spam takedowns/clinch exchanges and all it will do is make cody's counters even more powerful. Engage in striking exchange and the counters will be less powerful but more frequent).

I didn't like the decision by Mendes camp to take this fight (should of stayed two more fights in Legacy ). There are plenty of fringe UFC guys for him to headline against in Legacy FC (axs tv) such as Ricardo Ramos, Steven Peterson, or if he wanted to risk it Manny Vazquez

 

[randomg1t]

You must be mad because your garbage shoyoroll gis are overpriced. Hahaha.

shoyorolls are fackin ugly. you must be getting stuck in de la riva a lot.