CM Punk: MMA evolved from pro wrestling

[Got GOAT]

Wrestling itself is over 15,000 years old. Basically all disciplines today and martial arts were influenced by it in some manner. MMA evolved from anicent Greek Pankration, not from "pro wrestling". And yes, there were a lot of legitimate pro wrestlers throughout history that were actual catch wrestlers (CACC wrestlers) beforehand and simultaneously with their catch wrestling careers.

 

[Steve08]

He's right. But it's more like they were the same thing and then pro wrestling became "staged". If you know your history you will know punk is right. But the jealous kids here won't agree

Yeah, professional wrestling early in the 20th century was actually not that dissimilar from a grappling promotion like say the ADCC, aside from different rules of course: throws (much more emphasis on throwing and suplexes than there is now, if I'm not mistaken), leg locks, neck cranks, armbars. I believe you could win a match by pin or best two of three falls, but moreover professional wrestlers would use whatever they could find, catch submissions, judo/jiu jitsu techniques etc.

So really, catch/old school pro wrestling is essentially proto-mma. But most people dont even know that in the early 1900s, you could wrestle for money and the outcome was NOT predetermined.

MMA evolved from anicent Greek Pankration, not from "pro wrestling".

Only in principle. Hard to draw a direct comparison when pankration was done with weapons and only disallowed biting and eye-gouging. The fighters were also Greek soldiers for the most part.

But yeah, it was really the first mixed fighting spectacle that I can think of. Pretty much anything with striking and grappling is mma by definition. Plus I've seen artwork on Greek urns/vases that pretty much looks like a guy doing a standing armlock, which fascinates me.

 

[egk]

It's just as easy to say MMA evolved from the "Tough man competitions". It's not like fighting is anything new anyway.

 

[Got GOAT]

Only in principle. Hard to draw a direct comparison when pankration was done with weapons and only disallowed biting and eye-gouging.

But yeah, it was really the first mixed fighting spectacle that I can think of. Pretty much anything with striking and grappling is mma by definition.

I can agree with this. I just don't want the Hulk Hogan types thinking they've been pivotal in MMA's evolution today.

 

[MMAlover123]

It's actually true , after all Mitsuyo Maeda a catch wrestler was the teacher of Carlos Gracie ... one of the creators of BJJ.

Inoki was holding exhibition ( worked ) bouts against martial artist ( boxers , karate fighters , judo grapplers )

Karl Gotch trained some Pancrase fighters also i think also ?

Billy Robinson trained what some say is the greatest Japanese MMA fighter ever in Kazushi Sakuraba.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

He's right. But it's more like they were the same thing and then pro wrestling became "staged". If you know your history you will know punk is right. But the jealous kids here won't agree

Eh.... No. Pro wrestling has been a staged show since back to the 70s, and I'm sure beyond.

MMA evolved, primarily, from a very badass Bloodsport-esque fight tournament called UFC.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

TIL CM Punk knows more about the history of MMA than 99% of sherdoggers

 

[MarcCA]

TIL CM Punk knows more about the history of MMA than 99% of sherdoggers

Goldberg told him everything

 

[The Diplomat]

Eh.... No. Pro wrestling has been a staged show since back to the 70s, and I'm sure beyond.

MMA evolved, primarily, from a very badass Bloodsport-esque fight tournament called UFC.

Catch wrestling came along way before the UFC.

 

[FightNight973]

Its kind of funny, before MMA took off I feel like pro wrestlers, even though it was scripted, had the aura of baddest men on the planet. This is before MMA really demystified what true fighting is and what works and doesn't. I feel like Pro wrestlers had this aura about them that doesn't exist right now. For example, I remember when Tyson was brought into wwf in 98 and him and Austin had that confrontation, I remember watching that being kind of worried for Tyson (even though I knew it was scripted), I felt like Austin was just badder and more intimidating. Its funny to think about now that the average UFC lightweight would probably starch most of the WWE roster except for Brock who trained MMA anyway.

 

[Count Zero]

Just like with biological evolution ... I'd say it's more a case of common ancestor

 

[PivotPunch]

Just like with biological evolution ... I'd say it's more a case of common ancestor

Yeah that's a fair assumption but I think Japanese wrestling is soemthign different in Japan you really could say it evolved from pro wrestling.

And no MMA didn't evolve from Pankration it was an ancient sport and was dead for thousands of years the sport died and just got resurrected through MMA but modern MMA didn't really evolve from it it's just that that early form of modern MMA already existed a long time ago

 

[Slick_36]

Its kind of funny, before MMA took off I feel like pro wrestlers, even though it was scripted, had the aura of baddest men on the planet. This is before MMA really demystified what true fighting is and what works and doesn't. I feel like Pro wrestlers had this aura about them that doesn't exist right now. For example, I remember when Tyson was brought into wwf in 98 and him and Austin had that confrontation, I remember watching that being kind of worried for Tyson (even though I knew it was scripted), I felt like Austin was just badder and more intimidating. Its funny to think about now that the average UFC lightweight would probably starch most of the WWE roster except for Brock who trained MMA anyway.

Back in the day, pro wrestlers were actually encouraged to get in to fights in towns they were in. But there was one rule to that, win or face some serious consequences. They wanted their guys to get a reputation as bad motherfuckers wherever they were, losing to some townie in a bar destroyed that rep so it was a serious screwup. Some guys were straight up enforcers. There's an amazing thread in the archives here that has a lot of those stories, like Haku grabbing a guy and literally pulling his tooth out.

 

[hto63]

The history involves a lot of crossover between the two, no denying that.

two men fighting each other in a real fight for entertainment has been around thousands of years before somebody thought making the whole thing fake and predetermined and add some drama would also sell well.

 

[Arcturus]

old school pro-wrestling matches, especially in the UK contained a lot of catch wrestling/submission wrestling they were all legit grapplers and submission grapplers, also study the career of the legendary pro-wrestler Lou Thesz.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

absolutely agree.

 

[MilesAbove]

I know a few of the local-scene pro-wrestlers here in Vegas that would echo that sentiment.


Dave Mazany put it best: If you are an MMA fan and you don't appreciate what professional wrestling is/was, then you deny your very lineage as a fan.

 

[hto63]

I know a few of the local-scene pro-wrestlers here in Vegas that would echo that sentiment.


Dave Mazany put it best: If you are an MMA fan and you don't appreciate what professional wrestling is/was, then you deny your very lineage as a fan.

Probably only pro wrestlers and fighters who would make better pro wrestlers than cage fighters like Sonnen would echo that sentiment.

Dave Mazany sounds like an idiot.
People have been fighting each other for thousands of years and other people have watched that for entertainment. Wrestling just put a spin on that making it all fake and meaningless unless you are a very easily entertained person.

The actors and stuntmen in pro wrestling may have a strong amateur wrestling background where they had a lot of success like Brock. But other than that they don't know martial arts. They don't know striking techniques, they don't have the mentality of a fighter (even Brock was visibly scared to get hit and faltered as soon as he was) and they have more in common with professional stuntmen or actors than real fighters.

 

[Warfist]

I never knew the greeks had naked pro wrestling back at the beginning of the olympics.

Duh

They also used to put guys through tables and compete in buried alive matches...its where it all started.

Now go fuck yo self

 

[Draggin99Si]

Wrestling is the father of the martial arts. It is the oldest form of human combat.