Closed guard: What concepts changed your game?

[nodferatu]

I shouldn't be leaking the because the project is not finished/fulled edited yet but, the closed guard is one of my favorite positions. This project withe Dan Covel (MG BB) changed the way I use the closed guard.

Dan's approach to the closed guard makes the position into such an aggressive/attacking guard. If anyone has MGinAction, you can see him submitting Marcelo with the closed guard (in training).

I can't wait for this to come out!

 

[nodferatu]

Unless you have 2 really good sweeps from closed that works all the time, your closed guard is useless.

So please name 2 sweeps that always can hit from closed guard.

Forget about your subs from closed guard at the moment.

The Cobrinha, Galvao, or Xande sweep, it has various names. Basically a flower sweep but with knee and opposite side sleeve control. If that doesn't work then you have multiple submission options off of it.

Arm drag to the side into a flower sweep/back take.

Hip Bump sweep.

Triangle sweep.

Here is a technique by Liera Jr with the 2-1 arm drag that I use constantly. Should start at the time the technique starts, if not then it starts at 2:50 in.

[YT]cjX2AcjYEhI#t=170[/YT]

 

[Higus]

Thank you, can you elaborate on the technical stand up when the opponent postures up? Are you bringing the fight back to the feet at that point or using the technical standup for some sweep?

So you just tactical stand with a collar tie, and snap them down into Front Headlock?

Could you elaborate on that? It sounds interesting but I don't know enough to get what you're talking about.

Ok, so most of the time you end up in closed guard, gi or nogi, your opponent's goal is to not let you break his posture, so he'll be doing his best to make some space between your hips and keep his posture upright. If he's broken down and working his way back upright, you can just put a hand on the back of his neck (collar tie) and use his upward motion to pull yourself upright. As he's making space between your hips, open your guard and pop into a technical stand up. Since he's on his knees and you have control of his neck, he has very limited mobility. From that position, he's only got a couple of options: he can either flop to guard where you can utilize many standing passes since you are on your feet, or he will try to shoot forward on your knees. Unless the guy is freaky explosive and strong, you should be able to counter most single legs attempts he makes on his knees, leaving him in a turtle position. The front headlock is right there for the taking.

It was really eye opening for me when I started doing this. I kind of came to the conclusion that the technical stand up is potentially the most important bjj technique for self defense and MMA. I'm really surprised by how little stand ups are focused on in BJJ schools.

 

[smart.feller]

I think anyone who says closed guard is an outdated position has trouble retaining guard.

To me, the important thing in closed guard is chaining your attacks...sometimes you have to work really hard to break your opponents posture, and when you've done that it's time to go all out. In other dominant positions if you miss a sub but still maintain base, you are virtually no worse off for it. In guard if you break posture and attempt a sub and they escape and regain posture you are back to step 1. My big thing is to get a deep collar grip in first. I can utilize it to look for the cross collar choke (I always grab the gi on the outside with my second hand...don't like having both hands tied up), if that fails I have triangle and arm bar set ups. Last night in class I went from a failed Ezekiel choke to a triangle set up that also failed straight into a bow and arrow choke.

Even if your opponent is defending, as long as you continue to string submission attempts together in a technically proficient way, eventually you will get your opening because a screw up on your part causes a reset to a postured opponent, a screw up on their part leads to the tap.

 

[Waldorf]

Echoimg attack posture first . Attack the posture and the responses give you your sweeps and sub. Use your legs and hips to break the posture and not your arms.

 

[masada555]

What concepts changed my game?

First, the concept of getting your hips up high and your legs down low, "ratcheting" yourself into place makes it difficult or impossible for your opponent to open your closed guard without standing up:



When my opponent attempts to stand up, I use the "muscle sweep" (underhook one leg and use your hips / body posture to pressure that knee). I'll get a sweep OR my opponent resets down onto his knees:



While my opponent is on his or her knees, I will use the two-on-one to attack the back (if the elbow is closed) or the omoplata or kimura (if the elbow is open).

 

[Balto]

I actually think closed guard is a great sport-stalling position. I don't mean this as a bad thing (I know, I know, everyone hates stalling). But if you can pull closed guard with a 0-0 score, you will almost always win the match. If you can pull closed guard while being up on points, you should always win. The downside is it will take a lot of energy. It's also not a very dynamic position, and doesn't work so well when your opponents are bigger and good at what they do. It's the best position there is to set-up good grips without being in too big of a hurry.

The main problem with the closed guard is that it's hard to get to at higher levels, and yes it does put an unnecessary amount of strain on your lower back and hips.

Yes, closed guard is the ultimate position to sit on a lead from. That is how I use it in competition. I am not good enough at closed guard to seek it when things are even or when I am behind. But when I am up, it's my favorite guard by far.

 

[Balto]

Unless you have 2 really good sweeps from closed that works all the time, your closed guard is useless.

So please name 2 sweeps that always can hit from closed guard.

Forget about your subs from closed guard at the moment.

I know several beasts from the closed guard.

They all invariably seem to use hip bump sweep and flower sweep in combination.

 

[dimmyfinster]

as has been said before, my major revelation was the importance of breaking posture.

To address OP's question's

- I think Braulio has the best closed guard stuff by a lot. estimainaction.com, invisible jiujitsu series, and his DVD. Andreh's is a good summary of positions, and Busy's gives you a different view on things. Caioterra online has some nice closed guard stuff too.


- about the armbar. estimainaction.com shows Braulio hitting a lot of armbars in his sparring videos. He never hits them straight away (as he would say). Always while threatening a choke, or else attacking it from high guard. And when in high guard, threatening omoplata or threatening going to the back. You can't just hit an armbar in isolation as you would in drilling.

 

[luisgi]

Thank you guys, I am still trying to parse a lot of the information and videos here. Incredibly useful stuff, thanks!

I never thought of Estima as being a closed guard guy, I need to pay more attention to him. The Digitsu videos look awesome, I will be getting that set for sure.

This is what I have tried with success:

- Lifting my hips: If I was looking for a secret this one was it, it changed the position completely for me.
- Always be attacking: My armbars are still no there yet, but my wristlocks are. So I am working on a nice combination that goes two on one looking for the wrist lock. Based on the defense I either switch to flower switch or the Liera Jr. backtake.

Very few guys at my school stand up to pass the closed guard, so I havent exercised that path yet (we have lots of white and blue belts), but usually transition to open guard which is a little bit more fluid than my closed guard.

Thank you again, I will be looking at the side guard too. Keep the advice coming if you can think of anything else.

 

[Rico]

Opening it on my own terms.

 

[Patrick F Carey]

So you just tactical stand with a collar tie, and snap them down into Front Headlock?

 

[Vitamin C]

I've actually seen a 0-0 white belt closed guard match given to the guy that got pulled on. We all expected the guard puller to get the nod naturally, as is the custom in BJJ. We were all pleasantly surprised to be honest.

Only seen it the once though, so I'm not exactly arguing against the notion.

 

[Zankou]

Both guys should be given a loss in a 0-0 closed guard match. Double DQ.

 

[BIGthingsSON]

Smaller guy really helped me with my closed guard at purple . Just that double sleeve grip upped my game immenselyyyyy. On top of that he showed me how to pull it from a multitude of common positions. Recently swept an old school brown belt to mount. This is a guy who's been through the RINGER when it comes to old school techs. To sweep him from some where as basic as closed made me realize how far my closed has gotten.

 

[yetanother]

Both guys should be given a loss in a 0-0 closed guard match. Double DQ.

That would be the most stupid rule ever.b
If someone can't open the guard why should I open it myself?
A lot of people don't know how to open it and just try to stall it out. A lot of them also try to clamp down on my hips so that if I open the can try a cheap pass.
In a no time limit they would have zero chances as I would just wear them down but with a time I sometimes get a few close attempts (I'm no Roger Gracie so I make mistakes) and they are doing everything they can to slow things down.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

So it's okay to stall on bottom, but not on top

 

[yetanother]

I never stall from the bottom when it's 0-0 from closed guard. It would be stupid. But I shouldn't be forced to open just because the other guy will not try to do it himself. Should I give up side control if he doesn't want to pass?

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

No, but you should sweep or submit if he doesn't want to pass

 

[yetanother]

No, but you should sweep or submit if he doesn't want to pass

I try to but with stalling being tolerated it's not always easy. In the gi if you don't have awesome some it's a slow battle of breaking his grips, forcing the angle. Often they guy will hinder be all the way and then explode out while the attack is near completion. In no gi I would just let the guys stand up as it's the only high percentage way of attacking unless you are Braulio Estima himself. If the guys on top refuses to open the guard standing he should be DQ'ed.