Clearing up the "Downed Fighter" Rule -- Explanation of Means vs. Oliveira

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Spearfish CA, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. Spearfish CA

    Spearfish CA Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    So obviously there was some controversy there, with the disagreement between Rogan/Ratner and Dan Miragliotta's call. I saw also in the play-by-play thread a lot of posters were confused about the rule too, and how it's changing, so I'm going to explain it as clearly as possible for anyone confused about it.


    First of all, the current rule (which has been in place for many years, and which will be slightly changed in just a few days,) is that a downed fighter is a fighter with ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE SOLES OF THE FEET TOUCHING THE MAT.

    "Three points of contact" has NEVER been the rule. Think about it -- a fighter on his back has only one point of contact. But you can't knee or kick his head! It's just a careless misstatement of the rule and I don't know what the origin of that is. But it's wrong.

    The current rule soon will be altered slightly to where if the only thing touching the mat besides the soles of your feet is a hand (or part of the hand,) it has to be BOTH hands, not just one (which would be enough under the current rule.)


    Under either rule, a knee down is a downed fighter. Even if one knee is the ONLY thing touching the mat, that's a downed fighter. So Dan made the right call -- and I also think the NC was appropriate because "accidental" doesn't mean it was thrown by accident. That would be insane -- almost no illegal shot ever was thrown by accident. What it means is that to get a DQ you need to have wrongful intent -- the intent of throwing an illegal blow or reckless indifference as to whether a shot was legal or not in disregard of the opponent's safety. If the fighter who threw the shot didn't mean to throw an illegal shot and wasn't just being reckless, it is deemed to be an accidental shot.


    Given the fact that even knowledgeable people didn't understand this rule, I think it's fair to give Means the benefit of the doubt and find that he didn't have that wrongful intent, so the NC was appropriate.


    Hope this clears things up!

    P.S. that fight was fucking sweet while it lasted, was bummed at the ending but here's to more great fights tonight!
     
  2. Th3Sav4ge

    Th3Sav4ge "What the fuck is happening!?"

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    delete that massive wall of text and just type "its not 2017 new rules arnt in effect yet fuck off"
     
  3. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Special Advisor

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    Rogan and Ratner are just plain idiots, Miragliotta is a bad ref but knew the rule (though contrary to the OP a fighter being confused about the rules is no "accident"), and the unified rules are still for pussies whether it's 2016 or 2017.
     
  4. Spearfish CA

    Spearfish CA Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    Maybe actually read that "wall of text" (it's like a 45-second read, honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you)


    Because you clearly are confused about the rules, so this post was for your benefit.
     
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  5. cheat toes

    cheat toes raising hell

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    the wall tells it all!
     
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  6. sirmorbach

    sirmorbach These violent delights have violent ends

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    Good job, TS.
     
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  7. aldeniro78

    aldeniro78 Who cares

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    Pretty sure Rogan is the only one who thought it was a legal knee.
     
  8. Spearfish CA

    Spearfish CA Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    Miragliotta was a bad ref when he started (terrible, actually)

    But I think he's quietly become one of the best refs.

    I was surprised but in the play by play thread there were dozens and dozens of people who didn't know the rule and thought Means was robbed and Miragliotta was an idiot who fucked up royally.

    You're not out of line to post what you did, though. Had I not seen the amount of confusion in that thread, I would have also expected people would know the rule that's been in place for so many years.

    Lollll you seem way too mad. How my post provoked that much anger from you is beyond me
     
  9. jeff7b9

    jeff7b9 Red Belt

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    There was nothing accidental about that knee.

    Otherwise... Good post op
     
  10. lakentreehugger

    lakentreehugger White Belt

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    Thanks TS! Great post!
     

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