Citations & arrests plummeting in New York after the murder of Officer Ramos and Liu

Immediately after Katrina the police in New Orleans abandoned their posts and the city had no law enforcement for several days. Some neighborhoods had the famous looting etc. Others formed citizens' watch and such and patrolled their own streets with guns. Of course the first thing the govt did when it came back was to disarm everyone.

Also note that some areas today there's like a 25% clearance rate for murders. I suspect those are the same places you would see the looting. The law isn't universally working here even now, at least not to a degree you'd expect in a developed country.

Which is why the Vitter amendment was passed.

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=44911.0;wap2


By the way this was the role call on passing it. And guess which way Clinton voted on it.


http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00202
 
I thought the comments by the mayor were pretty honest. He has a bi-racial child and he had to balance the two realities of wanting to raise his son to respect authority and admire police but also couldn't disregard the reality that there are sometimes two sets of rules depending on color and he needs to know about it as a matter of practicality and safety.

And as far as these stats, IMO it shows the police are thinking twice about getting in a possible life and death situation over something minor. But this isn't a good situation overall. What one would hope would come out of some terrible events like the ones that have transpired is that officers start using a little more discretion before deciding to use lethal force against anyone and especially against black men. And when that happens long enough, you start to see more trust between the people and the police. Citizens and police are supposed to be on the same side. There is no way to justify killing two police officers that did nothing wrong simply because they share a badge with others. That is its own form of bigotry. And if people think police being afraid to engage to stop crime is a good thing, wait until that crime escalates or hits a little closer to home. One hopes it never would have had to come to this. But now that it has, people have to start making serious choices. If we start dividing things by color or badges instead of criminal and citizen then we are all in for a world of hurt. And enough of the wrong people have been hurt already. You never balance those scales by killing more innocent people, no matter what side you are on.

What?? Maybe think that statement through again.
 
the one thing i have learned from all of this is that besides most cops being crooked, they are ALL a bunch of cry babies. the minute things dont go their way and people hold them responsible (i dont mean from the shooting, but from protests, etc), they want to take their ball and go home. they cant stand that they are no longer getting their asses kissed outside of fox news
 
the one thing i have learned from all of this is that besides most cops being crooked, they are ALL a bunch of cry babies. the minute things dont go their way and people hold them responsible (i dont mean from the shooting, but from protests, etc), they want to take their ball and go home. they cant stand that they are no longer getting their asses kissed outside of fox news

That goes a bit far but I have to say the response to NYC protesters (not Ferguson, not the shooting of the cops) has been very childish. Cops complaining that they weren't being allowed to crack down on the protesters. And the NYC protesters were very well-behaved in general. The cops there seem to despise the bill of rights.
 
Thats not the point he made. The point he made was that America would be Mogadishu which is complete bull shit.

a society based on the non aggression principle with no one group having a monopoly on power, and a more independent general election commission would do just fine

Good luck with that, hippy.

See it takes only one group to disagree with the underlined premise to undermine your society. You need the threat of force. And isn't the threat of force at least implicitly aggressive? Or is it only the initial threat of force that is considered aggressive?

Perhaps you are correct, but from my reading of the news, it sure doesn't appear that's how the world works.
 
Good luck with that, hippy.

See it takes only one group to disagree with the underlined premise to undermine your society. You need the threat of force. And isn't the threat of force at least implicitly aggressive? Or is it only the initial threat of force that is considered aggressive?

Perhaps you are correct, but from my reading of the news, it sure doesn't appear that's how the world works.
You just carry on thinking that society would fall apart without police.
 
That goes a bit far but I have to say the response to NYC protesters (not Ferguson, not the shooting of the cops) has been very childish. Cops complaining that they weren't being allowed to crack down on the protesters. And the NYC protesters were very well-behaved in general. The cops there seem to despise the bill of rights.

According to the bill of rights you can protest any where you want?

The cops for the most part have been OK with the truly peaceful protesters and even with the not so peaceful protesters.
 
They need to realize who is boss. They only care about themselves. That is all it is about. Not the community. Them.

They need to be reeled in. It reminds me of that scene from Top Gun. The instructor bitching out Tom Cruise. "That is NOT your plane. That is the taxpayer's plane!" They work for us. They serve us. Those are our guns. Those are our cars. That is our money. They need to remember that. They need to fuckin kneel.
 
They need to realize who is boss. They only care about themselves. That is all it is about. Not the community. Them.

They need to be reeled in. It reminds me of that scene from Top Gun. The instructor bitching out Tom Cruise. "That is NOT your plane. That is the taxpayer's plane!" They work for us. They serve us. Those are our guns. Those are our cars. That is our money. They need to remember that. They need to fuckin kneel.

Your right they work for "us" not for you they are hired by the majority and because of the constitution they are only allowed to do the bidding of the majority up to a point.

That's a point that a lot of people don't seem to understand they don't work for the individual they work for the majority.
 
Your right they work for "us" not for you they are hired by the majority and because of the constitution they are only allowed to do the bidding of the majority up to a point.

That's a point that a lot of people don't seem to understand they don't work for the individual they work for the majority.

It shows that they actually work for themselves. They were solving "crimes" a few weeks ago, that they aren't now.

I really think a police union is an extremely dangerous institution. Cops are above the law already as far as I am concerned. And a powerful union backing them up? It is like having a mercenary force. It is scary. The entire system needs to be stripped down, and reconstructed into something workable. Cops cannot have this attitude any longer. Their adversarial attitude towards the public, will no longer be tolerated.
 
It shows that they actually work for themselves. They were solving "crimes" a few weeks ago, that they aren't now.

I really think a police union is an extremely dangerous institution. Cops are above the law already as far as I am concerned. And a powerful union backing them up? It is like having a mercenary force. It is scary. The entire system needs to be stripped down, and reconstructed into something workable. Cops cannot have this attitude any longer. Their adversarial attitude towards the public, will no longer be tolerated.

Read what they are doing, they are working to the book so they are still doing their job and they are not looking to take it out on the people only the administration.

Their union is like any other union they work to protect and benefit the members, that's what they are paid to do.

I agree the union rights of civil servants should be somewhat restricted and it should not be closed shop.
 
Did I miss something?
Is he being held accountable for the police being killed?
The police union guy, and people in this thread, are asserting that the mayor was responsible for those police being killed. That should be pretty clearly idiotic but it keeps being said. While idiotic on its face, the assertion becomes more idiotic when you remember (as so often seems to be getting forgotten) that the killer murdered his girlfriend before killing the cops.
 
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