Cintron In MMA, Good for Boxing?

[Turban Capote]

That's an absolutely ridiculous line of reasoning. So let me get it straight:

1) A Professional Fighter wouldn't be motivated for a Professional Fight, especially one who takes his career seriously enough to get in the ring with a guy who mauled him twice.

2) If he trains for a year he won't be the level (regarding ground skills) as people who have been continuously training for years, and somehow this is new information, and we're only talking about him beginning his career in MMA by facing Sean Sherks, BJ Penns, or Din Thomases.

3) You're not sure what he meant when he says he still wrestles, because in your opinion it doesn't at all insinuate that he still WRESTLES, because he doesn't "look like a wrestler."

A guy who spent most of his adult life as a boxer, he's gonna have to start practically from zero as an MMA fighter with no guarantee of being as succesful MMA fighter as he is a boxer. I wouldn't think he'd be motivated. Especially the way he challenged the UFC guys, he views MMA as an inferior sport compared to boxing. It almost sounded as if he assumed could jump right into an MMA fight with no further training and win, hence my first comment.

Assuming he is motivated, it would definitely take more than a year to reach elite status. He's gonna have to change his life dramatically, cut ties with his boxing trainers managers and whatnot and begin anew. Because of his success as a boxer, I assume the measure to his success if he were to transition to MMA would be to beat elite guys like Penn or Sherk. IMO it would be a longshot to say that in five years he would learn enough grappling to beat Penn or Sherk. Anytime longer than that his body will start to slow down, making it even more unlikely. They have the capacity to take any fighter in the 155 weight class to the ground and impose their ground game. Penn has been practising jiu-jitsu growing up, Cintron will probably never reach his jiu-jitsu level. So is Sherk with his wrestling.

You look at Sherk, Couture, Randleman, Hughes, they look like wrestlers. They have thick thighs, thick necks, wide chests and back muscles. Wrestlers are supposed to be stocky. Kermit doesn't look like a wrestler which made me assume he doesn't train as an actual wrestler, just do some training excercises wrestlers does for strength and conditioning purposes. And even if he does, being without the attributes of a wrestler makes me think he wouldn't be a good wrestler.

 

[Turban Capote]

Replace Cintron with Haye for what threadstarter said about being serious MMA potential and I'll believe it. He's definitely more suited to transition to MMA than Cintron is imo.

Seriously? You

 

[GlassJaw]

Replace Cintron with Haye for what threadstarter said about being serious MMA potential and I'll believe it. He's definitely more suited to transition to MMA than Cintron is imo.

[.

.........This is some beautiful trollin right here.

 

[Sinister]

A guy who spent most of his adult life as a boxer, he's gonna have to start practically from zero as an MMA fighter with no guarantee of being as succesful MMA fighter as he is a boxer. I wouldn't think he'd be motivated. Especially the way he challenged the UFC guys, he views MMA as an inferior sport compared to boxing. It almost sounded as if he assumed could jump right into an MMA fight with no further training and win, hence my first comment.

Assuming he is motivated, it would definitely take more than a year to reach elite status. He's gonna have to change his life dramatically, cut ties with his boxing trainers managers and whatnot and begin anew. Because of his success as a boxer, I assume the measure to his success if he were to transition to MMA would be to beat elite guys like Penn or Sherk. IMO it would be a longshot to say that in five years he would learn enough grappling to beat Penn or Sherk. Anytime longer than that his body will start to slow down, making it even more unlikely. They have the capacity to take any fighter in the 155 weight class to the ground and impose their ground game. Penn has been practising jiu-jitsu growing up, Cintron will probably never reach his jiu-jitsu level. So is Sherk with his wrestling.

You look at Sherk, Couture, Randleman, Hughes, they look like wrestlers. They have thick thighs, thick necks, wide chests and back muscles. Wrestlers are supposed to be stocky. Kermit doesn't look like a wrestler which made me assume he doesn't train as an actual wrestler, just do some training excercises wrestlers does for strength and conditioning purposes. And even if he does, being without the attributes of a wrestler makes me think he wouldn't be a good wrestler.

This is arguably the most comprehensive ignorant post I've ever seen. Nice work.

 

[Rinksterk**]

lol. I didn't know I had to look like a wrestler to become one. I can't believe I wasted all my time learning technique.

 

[5acrossYOeye]

that post kinda reminds me of TPC....im just sayin.

 

[GodLovesUgly]

"He respects MMA as a sport (more than Cintron, verbally at least)"



i dont understand why the MMA kids get their panties in such a bunch over a little trash talk from a fighter. seriously, fighters talk, half of everything they say you arent meant to take seriously. its just for the show. i see this all the time on the HW.

 

[Turban Capote]

lol at you guys for ducking arguments by claiming it as ludicrous and by simply not answering my arguments. Why don't you try nitpicking my arguments to try to prove it wrong?

Better yet grant me this, what exactly does cintron have to make him worthy of a discussion of being an MMA fighter that Haye does not? I was trying to point out that Cintron does not have the potential to be a really good MMA fighter but Haye does because he has a better background to do so. Please, school me.

 

[BOX/WRESTLE]

I like Kermit Cintron. Guy is extremely talented and has physical blessings that guys wish for their whole careers.

Sometimes though, no matter how good you are, there's always someone who has your number. I believe Antonio Margarito is that guy for Kermit.

Now, with Kermit's inability to get past Margarito, and with Cotto as the Kingpin of the Welterweight division with Floyd seemingly keeping his career in limbo, 147 is just never going to be where Kermit will be the best guy unless Miguel, Tony, and Floyd all depart and I don't see it happening.

We had a thread discussing his future options, one of which was to go to 154, the other was to enter into MMA.

For those unfamiliar with his backstory, Kermit was one of the best amatuer wrestlers in the state of Pennsylvania while in high school, and even got offers for wrestling scholarships to Ohio State, University of Wisconsin, and the University of Minnesota(same school as 2000 NCAA Heavyweight champion/UFC heavyweight Brock Lesnar).

Kermit suffered a knee injury and turned his focus to the other sport he was practicing in high school, boxing. He became a welterweight titlist, and has had a fairly successful career minus the Margarito bouts, but he's never emerged as one of the elite.

Considering three of the best collegiate wrestling schools offered him free rides, the guy's wrestling game is, or at the least was, among the tops in the nation.

Now Kermit would obviously have to learn to defend and possibly incorporate some JJ into his game like any wrestler wanting to make a go of MMA does(take note Lesnar), but who's to say he can't do it?

Now normally you'd have to work your way up the ladder to get big fights in MMA, but with Cintron being a world champion boxer crossing over, the wait list for him would be substantially cut due to the potential revenue he'd bring in, similar to how Brock's first fight in the UFC was against Frank Mir, and Brock wasn't even a professional combat sport athlete.

Quite frankly I think Kermit has the potential for more success as an MMA lightweight than as boxing welter. I think the main problem with the game of a lot of today's fighters, especially in the lighter weight divisions, is their unwillingness, or perhaps lack of capability to stand up and strike.

Kermit can crack, there's no doubt about it. When facing Kermit, most guys are probably going to be intimidated by his reputation and try to take it to the ground, so Kermit's chin won't be tested as it would against guys like Margarito and Cotto.

His wrestling is probably going to be severely underrated since he never wrestled collegiately, even though its quite obvious he was capable of doing so with offers like the ones he got.

But with all that said this could be a big boon for boxing. Kermit was a guy who couldn't make it to the top of the welterweight division, but he's someone I could see doing very well for himself provided he hasn't lost too many steps in his ground game.

It would be a major boost to the boxing business when people see that a guy who couldn't make it to the top of boxing after already coming close to but not getting to the elite level, going into MMA's face, the UFC, and taking their lightweight title within a year of his debut.

Thoughts?

Even if he did take the title ,how would that reflect negatively on MMA? Cintron would not even be thinking of entering MMA if it wasn't for his wrestling background.

 

[carpediem]

Man this shit is getting old. There are two different fight sports in existence how is the world still on its axis?

The ignorance on both sides is getting out of hand, yes cintron could be great at MMA. The question is why go to the effort for LESS pay?

IMO threadstarter does not respect MMA as evidenced by the year estimate. Matt Skelton got a world title shot but nobody would argue that proves that anyone can do well in boxing.

You still think MMA competitors are people who couldn't make it in boxing when in fact they may not even want to. Its like saying rugby players or american footballers only do what they do because they can't play soccer when the real reason is they do what they like.

 

[Sinister]

Better yet grant me this, what exactly does cintron have to make him worthy of a discussion of being an MMA fighter that Haye does not? I was trying to point out that Cintron does not have the potential to be a really good MMA fighter but Haye does because he has a better background to do so. Please, school me.

No one even brought up Haye but YOU. This thread is about Cintron, not Haye. And you claim Cintron doesn't have any potential, yet guys with even less potential have become MMA Champions. That's absolutely ridiculous. On paper Cintron has plenty potential, whether or not that pans-out can only be seen in the cage.

No one wanted to nit-pick your "arguments" because they suck.

The ignorance on both sides is getting out of hand, yes cintron could be great at MMA. The question is why go to the effort for LESS pay?

IMO threadstarter does not respect MMA as evidenced by the year estimate. Matt Skelton got a world title shot but nobody would argue that proves that anyone can do well in boxing.

You still think MMA competitors are people who couldn't make it in boxing when in fact they may not even want to. Its like saying rugby players or american footballers only do what they do because they can't play soccer when the real reason is they do what they like.

Less pay huh? So then by your rationale why would ANY MMA guy do MMA over Boxing? Why go for less pay? Because they do that they like, correct? Well part of the contention here is based on his disposition, Kermit might actually LIKE MMA more, it may be more suited to his mind-frame in fights. It might also have been better suited for Trevor Berbick, throwing kicks in a Boxing match.

Ever consider that there might be Boxers out there who might like MMA better and want to advance it as a Sport? Essentially that's what Foreman said he would have done, and MMA fans LOVE him for it.

 

[Brockton Block]

LOL @ Cintron taking the UFC lightweight title in a year. I'm sorry but if he hasn't wrestled in 8 years he's not going to be as good as he was, and add to that kicks and knees and submissions...

Agreed. I don't think he could take the title in a year. But I do think he could be a contender in a year, and this is coming from a guy who was a 26-1 amatuer boxer, now training for my first MMA fight. I know the difference. I can hang in sparring and smokers with a lot of pro 205ers now, and I'm learning wrestling and jits on the go. and I never had the boxing prowess, (p4p anyway), or near the wrestling credentials as Cintron.

This guy could make noise. The LW division has never seen a boxer/striker like Cintron. His wrestling is I'm guessing at least servicable. If has decent aptitude for sub grappling, whic wrestlers and athletic guys tend to, he could be damn good.

The only thing stopping him from being champ at 155 is BJ Penn. Penn has a standup style that confuses good strikers, (see the Penn/Machida/GSP fights), and Contron could never learn enough, quick enough to deal with BJ on the ground.

 

[Brockton Block]

Oh shit, mod throwing down above me.

 

[lionsdenks]

He has a great wrestling background.

They have to start standing and neither one of them can bang with him.

Sherk also has drug issues to work out if I'm not mistaken with the NSAC?

Plus I think BJ has seen his best days come and go.

You are absolutely wrong in every aspect. First BJ Penn has looked more dominant recently than he ever has at any point of his career by far. 2nd Sean Sherk does not have problems with the Athletic commissions and is main eventing UFC 84 at the MGM Grand which has already completely sold out. Which boxing never does unless it is DLH. Also being a really good high school wrestler has absolutely nothing to do with being good at MMA. I know a lot of really good high school wrestlers who wrestled in college, who I have seen get schooled and have schooled in fights. Being a good wrestler means nothing as far as MMA is concerned Kevin Jackson was an olympic medallist in wrestling and was not a good MMA fighter and there are other examples. The main thing is that you can't just say one day that I will have awesome Jiu Jitsu and then have it a year later. BJJ black belts are by far the most difficult thing to obtain in all of martial arts. Most ppl will never attain them and those that due will be practicing relentlessly for a decade. Also I completely disagree with the mental comparisons of boxing being worse as in MMA a guy has way more options than just punch you in the face to impose his will on you. If Cintron hasn't wrestled in almost a decade as well he will be completely completely fucked!!! Guys that train 8 hrs/day 6 days/week will rape and pillage him. His standup will be better than theirs but that will make no difference when he is on his back being choked unconscious.

 

[carpediem]

"Less pay huh? So then by your rationale why would ANY MMA guy do MMA over Boxing? Why go for less pay?"

If he was not established then this argument would have more weight BUT the point is he has certainty of decent pay now versus what? A potential to advance a sport?

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that a boxer would go into mma for the respect but I think realistically the salary gap needs to change.

It works both ways Matt Skelton went into boxing because he had one MMA fight and thought shit there's a lot to learn there.

There are major adjustments a boxer would have to make (even with wrestling experieince). I notice the difference in glove sizes between thai boxing gloves and grappling gloves. I haven't spent a decade perfecting defense and offence using the larger gloves.

The footspeed of a boxer should help BUT the stance and balance is totally different.

 

[carpediem]

Maybe MMA guys don't fancy the 1000's of shots to the head boxers take.... Just an idea...

 

[GlassJaw]

You are absolutely wrong in every aspect. First BJ Penn has looked more dominant recently than he ever has at any point of his career by far. 2nd Sean Sherk does not have problems with the Athletic commissions and is main eventing UFC 84 at the MGM Grand which has already completely sold out. Which boxing never does unless it is DLH. Also being a really good high school wrestler has absolutely nothing to do with being good at MMA. I know a lot of really good high school wrestlers who wrestled in college, who I have seen get schooled and have schooled in fights. Being a good wrestler means nothing as far as MMA is concerned Kevin Jackson was an olympic medallist in wrestling and was not a good MMA fighter and there are other examples. The main thing is that you can't just say one day that I will have awesome Jiu Jitsu and then have it a year later. BJJ black belts are by far the most difficult thing to obtain in all of martial arts. Most ppl will never attain them and those that due will be practicing relentlessly for a decade. Also I completely disagree with the mental comparisons of boxing being worse as in MMA a guy has way more options than just punch you in the face to impose his will on you. If Cintron hasn't wrestled in almost a decade as well he will be completely completely fucked!!! Guys that train 8 hrs/day 6 days/week will rape and pillage him. His standup will be better than theirs but that will make no difference when he is on his back being choked unconscious.

Too much to choose from.

 

[GlassJaw]

Maybe MMA guys don't fancy the 1000's of shots to the head boxers take.... Just an idea...

Until they see a guy like Bisping knee someones face off mwahahah .

 

[Sinister]

Maybe MMA guys don't fancy the 1000's of shots to the head boxers take.... Just an idea...

Yes, an idea Kermit shares, as he himself doesn't fancy the 1,000 shots to the head. Hence his performances against Tony.

 

[5acrossYOeye]

UFC 84 at the MGM Grand which has already completely sold out. Which boxing never does unless it is DLH. Also being a really good high school wrestler has absolutely nothing to do with being good at MMA.

Cotto-Judah
mayweather hatton
calazghe-kessler
pacquaio barrera and I can go on and on and on if you want me to continue.

YOU'RE AN IDIOT

The main thing is that you can't just say one day that I will have awesome Jiu Jitsu and then have it a year later. BJJ black belts are by far the most difficult thing to obtain in all of martial arts. Most ppl will never attain them and those that due will be practicing relentlessly for a decade.

not sure how you could prove that because there are MANY martial arts that don't have belt rankings. Threre are not very many black belts in boxing...that I know so once again...YOU'RE AND IDIOT.


Do your homework before you come in here spouting this shit.