Law Christian couple can sue over Minnesota same-sex marriage video law

Seano said:
Homosexuals aren't a protected class. Not saying its right or wrong. Just saying, this is an issue that hasn't been addressed well before the previous election. This isn't a Trump thing, like people want it to be.
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... I know? The insistence is "bizarre" though, and makes the LCR look as stupid as they are. It's also more accurate to say sexual orientation isn't a protected class, it wouldn't just be gheyz.
 
Seano said:
Homosexuals aren't a protected class. Not saying its right or wrong. Just saying, this is an issue that hasn't been addressed well before the previous election. This isn't a Trump thing, like people want it to be.
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It is in Minnesota.
 
VivaRevolution said:
Ehhh, I'm torn on this.

On the one hand, I think as long as bedroom shit is kept in the bedroom, it is no one's business, and shouldn't come up.

But then there is the reality that closeted gay is a thing for a reason, and while as I get older I further understand the need for the nuclear family unit to a society, I'm still not willing to support a culture that forces people to live in shame, and in the closet.

I guess I just wish there was something in-between where people aren't ashamed, and we don't need parades about who we fuck.
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Yeah there is an in-between. It's called being fucking decent and minding your business.

The problem with that though, is it doesn't make splashy headlines, it doesn't give anyone a high horse, and it doesn't keep your social media "popping".

The problem here is at the individual level. Our values, generally speaking, are fucked.
 
Lord Coke said:
I posted about this in the lounge before any news article were written because iIve learned that the forum will not read court opinions. Now that one is out i hope it is okay that I open it up for general discussion in the main forum. I think the opinon says it all. What's next making a muslim iman conduct a gay marriage?
https://kelo.com/news/articles/2019...minnesota-same-sex-marriage-video-law/930327/

By Jonathan Stempel

(Reuters) - A federal appeals court on Friday revived a lawsuit by a Minnesota couple challenging a state law requiring that their video production company film same-sex weddings, which they say violates their Christian beliefs.

In a 2-1 decision, the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Paul, Minnesota, said Angel and Carl Larsen can try to show that the law violates their rights to free speech and to freely exercise their religious beliefs under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Circuit Judge David Stras, an appointee of President Donald Trump, called videos by the St. Cloud, Minnesota, couple "a medium for the communication of ideas about marriage," and said the state's law "is targeting speech itself."

The court ordered U.S. District Judge John Tunheim in Minneapolis to decide whether the Larsens and their Telescope Media Group deserve a preliminary injunction against the law, which subjects violators to fines and possible jail time. Tunheim had dismissed the lawsuit in September 2017.

"With this perversion of the First Amendment, the majority sanctions a policy of 'No gays allowed,'" Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, a Democrat who defended the law, said in a statement.

He pledged to respond in the "strongest and most strategic way possible" to the decision.

"Angel and I serve everyone," Carl Larsen said, in a statement provided by his lawyers at Alliance Defending Freedom. "We just can't produce films promoting every message."

The case is among several in recent years where private business owners or individuals invoked their religious beliefs to deny services to same-sex couples.

In June, for example, the Washington Supreme Court ruled for a second time against a Christian florist for refusing to sell flowers to a same-sex couple for their wedding, setting up a potential clash at the U.S. Supreme Court.

Meanwhile, Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis in 2015 cited her religious beliefs in refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Same-sex marriage became legal in Minnesota in 2013, and nationwide in 2015.

The Larsens said they wanted to use their talents to honor God, including by producing wedding videos promoting marriage as a "sacrificial covenant between one man and one woman."

Minnesota objected, saying the Larsens had to produce videos of same-sex weddings as well as opposite-sex weddings, or else produce none.

But in Friday's decision, Stras said the Larsens could try to show that Minnesota law interfered with their message "by requiring them to say something they otherwise would not."

He distinguished antidiscrimination laws targeting conduct and only incidentally affecting speech, calling it "unquestionably" acceptable to require an employer to remove a "White Applicants Only" sign.

Circuit Judge Jane Kelly dissented, saying the majority's approach could support treating customers differently based on sex, race, religion and disability.

"Nothing stops a business owner from using today's decision to justify new forms of discrimination tomorrow," she wrote. "In this country's long and difficult journey to combat all forms of discrimination, the court's ruling represents a major step backward."

The case is Telescope Media Group et al v Lucero, 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, No. 17-3352.

Court opinion

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I've always said that photographers/videographers as well as catering and musicians should be exempt from having to do ss weddings because they are a part if the wedding itself.

I think not baking a cake or arranging flowers are verry iffy, leaning to they should bake the cake/make the arrangement. No ones asking for an endorsement, just some cake.
 
PainIsLIfe said:
I've always said that photographers/videographers as well as catering and musicians should be exempt from having to do ss weddings because they are a part if the wedding itself.

I think not baking a cake or arranging flowers are verry iffy, leaning to they should bake the cake/make the arrangement. No ones asking for an endorsement, just some cake.
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They are aiding them in the celebration/preservation of an event that they see as an abhorrent sin.
 
Pray.jpg
 
NoDak said:
Pray.jpg
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There's a "what kind of a tranny is credit card sale? I've heard of MTF and FMT, but that's a new one" joke in there somewhere.


I'll show myself out.
 
Kafir-kun said:
Oh that would make sense.
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I just called Trump the least homophobic POTUS of all-time (or at least since Lincoln) because Obammer had flipped some positions during second term while Trump was out supporting marriage equality back in the mid-2000s albeit obviously not holding political office. It probs doesn't really hold after this week, and the Admin is starting to grow Pencian.
 
Bald1 said:
No better way to get a substandard product than to force someone against their will to do a job. It is known.

So how do we balance out unjustified discrimination vs freedom of conscience? No matter what, I have a really tough time with accepting mandated actions, whereas prohibited and unrestricted (freedom of) action can be used to balance each other out. Bit of a clumsy sentence, but gets my point across well enough. Same idea goes for speech.
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Next stop Is referring all customers by their preferred pronouns
 
Fawlty said:
Providing a video service doesn't seem like an endorsement. It's just a "no gays" sign hanging in the window.
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Don’t be so intellectually dishonest, you’re better than that.
 
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