Chokes and joint locks in Muay Thai

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by JTJT, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. JTJT

    JTJT White Belt

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    Does anyone use bastardised chokes when clinching? When I'm in close I put my head in the crook of their neck and push in and then use a single neck tie and bicep control and really squeeze the neck onto my forehead.

    Another method I use is when someone goes for a single neck tie I'll hit their elbow up and go into the position for a standing head and arm choke, the choke in this isn't super effective but it's good for throwing knees and if you knee the stomach it can leave them gasping very quickly.

    When I go for a double collar tie there are two things I do, I slap the inside of my glove on their ear as I enter with the first hand then with the second I slam my forearm into the side of the neck (after showing someone this they did it back to me and the forearm to the neck dropped me briefly).

    If someone is not keeping their elbows tight then I'll slide my shoulder into their armpit and with both arms crank their head towards me, as long as you break their balance then their pretty helpless as you throw knees.

    From the same position under their armpit (using the arm that is under their armpit) wrap your arm around their shoulder and in front of their face and stretch it out like a crossface then clamp your head onto their arm which is over your shoulder, if they struggle and start trying to pull away the twist your whole upper body so that they either get doubled up with an arm straight in the air or turn the other way so and knee them in the back at the same time and they will go on their ass. (ps you should be kneeing through out this and in a fight you may get broken up if you throw on an armlock)


    As you throw elbows sneakily hit the neck with the forearm making sure that the elbow defiantly land so nobody can complain.

    once or twice I have people trying to get a single collar tie and I will swing my forearm just above their elbow (only because this is sparring otherwise I would go for the elbow) and jerk my upper body away from them , it hurts their arm and you can have some free knees:D

    That's all I can think of for now that aren't variations of the above if anybody have any good vids or other techniques please add them.
     
  2. sturmgeist

    sturmgeist Purple Belt

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    The first move you described is what is known as the Bulgarian headlock. None of these things are chokes, they are what we would call "gouges" in catch wrestling. Gouges refers to moves which inflict pain, but would never elicit a tapout from the initiated. The point, as your anecdotes illustrate, is to open your opponent up for more dangerous techniques, and to that end they can be masterfully employed.

    Try this: next time you go for the plum clinch, do not stack your hands like normal, with palms across the back of the opponent's neck. This is unsecure, there is no strength there to keep a man clinched, and they can very easily break free or duck out if they know when to move. Instead, clinch with your palms facing toward you, and stack your hands in one another with the back of one hand resting in the palm of the other, and wrap the fingers of the cradling hand around the large chunk of muscle below the thumb of the hand on top. Then bring your elbows together around the neck. The strength and security of this grip renders the conventional plum grip obsolete, and the rotation of the forearm bones in this posture gives you greater leverage and a harder surface to dig into your opponent's neck. It is very unlikely that you could stop flow through both carotid arteries, but you can certainly clamp one of them off, and that gives you a decided advantage.

    Also, this position makes it much less likely that you will hit your elbows when you bring those knees up.
     
  3. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    Um, that's good advice, but that is the traditional grip for the double collar in Muay Thai. That's the way I've always been taught it.
     
  4. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Green Belt

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    Edit. blue belt
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  5. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    I don't think he meant a gable grip. That would be like the setup for a nogi baseball bat choke. I think he meant both palms toward the back of the opponent's head, one palm on the back of the other hand, fingers gripping the thumb. That's just a standard clinch grip to me, though.
     
  6. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Green Belt

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    woops you're right, misread that part. not gable grip!
     
  7. JTJT

    JTJT White Belt

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    Yea I wasn't quite sure what to call that collection of moves, I've searched out some videos

    Saenchai going under armpit @ 0:39 and again @ 2:24



    This isn't great but kind of show the principle of some of the arm locks the only difference is that I would really crank that elbow in tight and hard to hopefully damage it.

     
  8. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    I'm surprised you guys didn't post up the bottle opener.
     
  9. JTJT

    JTJT White Belt

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    that's cool SAAMAG I'd actually never seen that before

     
  10. JTJT

    JTJT White Belt

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    a quick method of getting the standing triangle



    another basic one is covering their mouth and nose with your glove - basic I know but works well
     
  11. Gavster

    Gavster Purple Belt

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    Not really, I do like pushing their arm behind their back but standing moves become strength attacks usually, if someone knows a bit of what they are doing. Turning towards an opponent will counter most standup techniques.
    Its like trying to submit someone from full guard. Can be done but not worth the effort. There's a reason arts like hapkido/Aikido/ninjutsu are less real world applicable.
     
  12. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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  13. Vweek

    Vweek Purple Belt

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    Holy shit, that's my coach. Didn't know he had videos on youtube.
     
  14. JTJT

    JTJT White Belt

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    Yea sorry I didn't really describe what they where properly, as someone said said their more to wear people down and cause pain to open them up for strikes.
     
  15. aries

    aries Silver Belt

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    Nice, the way Pornsaneh does it looks a lot nastier.
     
  16. Cyclone Mike

    Cyclone Mike Amateur Fighter

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    That bottle opener move is one of my go to's. Very effective in making your opponent uncomfortable enough to give you a bad position.

    And unless I'm missing something, what sturmgeist spent paragraphs describing sounds a lot like the double collar Thai clinch aka what everything thinks of when they hear "Muay Thai clinch"
     
  17. Cyclone Mike

    Cyclone Mike Amateur Fighter

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    Also there's one where you trap the opponents wrist with your neck and shoulder. You can weave your arm on that side under and over to get a nice elbow lock.
     

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