Choke used in self-defense ends in death

[flyingknee16]

If I get attacked, I'd obliterate the arm. If I'm fighting someone who simply has a grudge with me, I'd choke him out. Maybe show him I could break his arm, then stop.

Yeah, but what if he's like, okay, uncle, you win, you let go of the arm, and he picks up a brick and smashes you on the head? better break that arm buddy.

 

[Matt Thornton]

I could be wrong but I've heard that most of the time, a front headlock or guillotine choke is considered a self defense move, and because of that, you're less likely to get in trouble for it.

 

[dutchmasterj3]

yeah def. shouldn't have killed him no need 10 seconds is all you need for him to pass out

 

[BulldogSIX]

Listen. For all of you armchair quarterbacks out there unless you've seen the video or been in a similar situation you can only hypothesize what was going on in each guys head at the times.

Here is what I can tell you: the alleged victim was trained in Modern Army Combatives. It is based on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Judo, Muay Thai, and Kali. I have no idea what level of training the guy had but all soldiers are trained about the safety aspects of chokes, armbars, etc prior to beginning training. So the alleged victim knew exactly what he was doing when he held the choke.

So if he felt his life was in danger and the guy was continuing to fight after being put in the choke then why would he let go? So the guy can stand back up and attack again? Sorry, I'm not buying that one.

It's a tragedy that the guy died but he showed hostile intent based on the police report and video.

 

[Gsoares2***]

I live In Land O Lakes, and i know the kid who died personally. I knew him since 1st Grade.
He was a nice guy BUT he by far wasnt that nice.(egging prostitutes, shouting NIG GER out the window) He often talked shit and got into fights with his redneck friends.. he was a drinker and hung out at Mcdonalds on the regular.
I feel bad for him that he died but honestly i cant say i dont think he didnt ask for the fight.

The kid probably yelled something at him, he yelled back.. So began the shit talking.. he got out of his truck..Kid got out of his car... they got into a fight.. and Anthony got more then he could handle.. Kid choked him out 4 life.. I mean honestly Anthony was a BIG mother fucker. I probably would have done the same thing had i had to fight him..

The news paper and his parents portray him as innocent.. but he was not... far from it in my opinion. But what do you expect parents to say? "yeah my kid was a fuck and deserved to die" And news papers are so full of shit.. they only print what is the most controversial as to get the "biggest" story.

I feel sorry for him, and sorry for the family.. and i hope he RIP

any questions about the inncodent i can probably find out.. I live 5 mins from the Mcdonalds it happened at.. and know some of the other people there when it happened.

The big deal i guess was that when the cops arrive Anthony was on the ground gaspin for air for 3-5 minutes and no paramedics were called.. The cops thought he was drunk and just out of it... Really he was choking because his shit had collapsed.

 

[BulldogSIX]

End of thread.

 

[MPCOA]

I don't want anyone to die, but the way I see this going down, is the big dude got out of the car, he was drunk, acting beligerant, and words were exchanged. They started going at it, and he thought he would just throw the little guy around. He got choked the fuck out. The little guy didn't know when to let go(he was army trained. which goes to show, a little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing). But the guy was defending himself, the video shows that the big dude as trying to fuck him up, slammed him twice and was throwing bolos. He did what he felt necessary to preserve his life at the time...

Why you got to knock the army?

You don't know what he was trained in or what hold he even used.

Getting body slammed by a 275er is a fight for your life, he did what was necessary.

 

[John O'Brien]

Their argument was that the guy on top was the agressor.. We all know full well that a BJJ guy will lure you to his guard.. he may have started it.. and pulled guard and choked him out. Not a very thought out investigation imo. They should watch a little more MMA. Just because this guy choked the other guy out and we are all bjj fans, doesn't mean we need to support him. We don't know the facts of the case. We don't know who started what.

 

[Resendiz]

Im 155lbs if i get in a fight with a big mother fucker thats 6'4 and considered a HW at 275 and almost get slammed like Sapp vs Nogueira hell i would do the same thing. If that guy is "faking" a choke noise which honestly it can easily happen and then out-smarts you into letting him go and the begins to beat you down you would have wished you didnt let the choke go.

Like Gsoares says he was nice but not that nice we are all capable of murderer no matter how "nice" you are.

And like someone else stated what do you expect the parents to say? Im sure in the back of their head they are thinking "damn my son asked for it" at the same time wanting vengance on the killer. If my brother was killed (god forbid!) i dont care if it was his fault i would kill the other person. Sure ill know it was my brothers fault but ill avenge my family's death by any means neccessary, its just something that NEEDS to be done and if you disagree you are entitled to your opinion. I may not be angry at the killer (assuming i knew it was self defence and he had no other choice), but business is business. I hope i didnt sound crazy just now but i know what i would do without thinking twice. And some of you would do the same thing without knowing.

Sucks he died but drunken shit talkers that like to start fights will eventually find themselves in an uncomfortable situation. RIP.

 

[Resendiz]

Their argument was that the guy on top was the agressor.. We all know full well that a BJJ guy will lure you to his guard.. he may have started it.. and pulled guard and choked him out. Not a very thought out investigation imo. They should watch a little more MMA. Just because this guy choked the other guy out and we are all bjj fans, doesn't mean we need to support him. We don't know the facts of the case. We don't know who started what.

i agree but i dont know if he lured him into his guard, he didnt fall back we was slammed and then fell. I do agree that they need to know a little more MMA (EVERYONE should) because they assumed that because he was on top he was the agresson. But thats it. It ALSO could be that he didnt lure him into a guard and was all self defence.

Bottom line is i think the murderer was justified from my point of view BUT investigators should know that not JUST because a man is on top it neccessarily makes him the agresson. In my eyes i saw him raining down punches then get choked out by a smaller man.

 

[Soid]

Their argument was that the guy on top was the agressor.. We all know full well that a BJJ guy will lure you to his guard.. he may have started it.. and pulled guard and choked him out. Not a very thought out investigation imo. They should watch a little more MMA. Just because this guy choked the other guy out and we are all bjj fans, doesn't mean we need to support him. We don't know the facts of the case. We don't know who started what.

I don't think he practiced BJJ, he could've simply known what a guillotine is through the army and applied it.

 

[MPCOA]

Who trys to pull guard in a parking lot?

275 lbs on top of you on pavement?

 

[b0b]

Who trys to pull guard in a parking lot?

275 lbs on top of you on pavement?

No one. That is a rediculous argument. It says the video shows the kid that died as the agressor. He charged him, body slammed him, and pummeled him. End of story.

 

[Oktavius**]

Who trys to pull guard in a parking lot?

275 lbs on top of you on pavement?

If you get slammed by someone that big you probly wont have any choice but pull guard or get mounted and destroyed...

 

[John O'Brien]

It's not the point - The point is that the police considered him the aggressor because he was on top. We know that this is sometimes not the case.. Some BJJ guys will easily fall onto their back and pull the other guy down just to work their guard game. If you think that BJJ is not used in street scenarios then you are highly mistaken. I'm not saying that this is the case for this guy, but the police should be more aware of brazilian jiu-jitsu. I love it as an art but I think far too many guys exploit it's effectiveness and go out looking for street fights. There may be some case in the future where the guy on top is not the aggressor but the police considered he was and let the other guy get off without any conviction. I think that this would be a travesty.

 

[Ashton]

I live In Land O Lakes, and i know the kid who died personally. I knew him since 1st Grade.
He was a nice guy BUT he by far wasnt that nice.(egging prostitutes, shouting NIG GER out the window) He often talked shit and got into fights with his redneck friends.. he was a drinker and hung out at Mcdonalds on the regular.
I feel bad for him that he died but honestly i cant say i dont think he didnt ask for the fight.

The kid probably yelled something at him, he yelled back.. So began the shit talking.. he got out of his truck..Kid got out of his car... they got into a fight.. and Anthony got more then he could handle.. Kid choked him out 4 life.. I mean honestly Anthony was a BIG mother fucker. I probably would have done the same thing had i had to fight him..

The news paper and his parents portray him as innocent.. but he was not... far from it in my opinion. But what do you expect parents to say? "yeah my kid was a fuck and deserved to die" And news papers are so full of shit.. they only print what is the most controversial as to get the "biggest" story.

I feel sorry for him, and sorry for the family.. and i hope he RIP

any questions about the inncodent i can probably find out.. I live 5 mins from the Mcdonalds it happened at.. and know some of the other people there when it happened.

The big deal i guess was that when the cops arrive Anthony was on the ground gaspin for air for 3-5 minutes and no paramedics were called.. The cops thought he was drunk and just out of it... Really he was choking because his shit had collapsed.

Good riddance, the world needs less douchebags like this.

Let's all clap this Army guy on the back for applying some much needed chlorine to the gene pool.

 

[Resendiz]

Good riddance, the world needs less douchebags like this.

Let's all clap this Army guy on the back for applying some much needed chlorine to the gene pool.

Yikes such violent comment. I know the guy was bad but death? I wish death on no-one unless ofcourse, well read my first post if you must.

Nah bro, i think that guys like that need to get their ass kicked untill they learn their lesson, but death?

 

[b0b]

It's not the point - The point is that the police considered him the aggressor because he was on top. There may be some case in the future where the guy on top is not the aggressor but the police considered he was and let the other guy get off without any conviction. I think that this would be a travesty.

No. I am not the police, but they said it was clear the agressor was the guy that died in this case. He CHARGED the other guy, slammed him, and was punching him. No matter what the Gracies have brainwashed you into thinking, the guy on bottom IS at a disadvantage in a fight where striking is allowed.

Most police departments have some training in grappling. A buddy of mine went to a police academy in Arizona and they had a 1 week course on ground grappling.

In a street fight, if the guy on top wants to, he can just stand up and walk away. At this point, he is no longer the agressor.

 

[Resendiz]

No. I am not the police, but they said it was clear the agressor was the guy that died in this case. He CHARGED the other guy, slammed him, and was punching him. No matter what the Gracies have brainwashed you into thinking, the guy on bottom IS at a disadvantage in a fight where striking is allowed.

Most police departments have some training in grappling. A buddy of mine went to a police academy in Arizona and they had a 1 week course on ground grappling.

In a street fight, if the guy on top wants to, he can just stand up and walk away. At this point, he is no longer the agressor.

Obviously in this case the big guy was the agressor. But listen to the report, they seem to think that ANYONE on top is the agressor. 'He was on top therefore the agressor' type of thing.

I HIGHLY doubt a guy in the bottom who is an expert in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is at a disadvantage against a normal person in the street. It may not the the most advantageous position or the position hed rather be in, but make no mistake a BJJ expert is not in big danger when fightin against a regular street punk from his back.

You said "most police departments have some training in grappling" thats most not all. Every police academy is different buddy.

A person cant just get up and walk away, what if the person in the bottom gets up and wants to continue fighting? If i wasnt the agressor id still stay on top of him if i was already on top and i would wait for someone to jump in and break it up if i didnt want to fight, but not everyone is going to "JUST" stand up and walk away.

 

[Ashton]

Yikes such violent comment. I know the guy was bad but death? I wish death on no-one unless ofcourse, well read my first post if you must.

Nah bro, i think that guys like that need to get their ass kicked untill they learn their lesson, but death?

While death isn't the best outcome to this situation, the guy seems like a serious douchebag. We've all seen the type. Someone that big and that volatile can do serious damage to someone, and from what I've gathered this guy doesn't seem to mind that. He got a little more than he bargained for.