Chiropractors- am I crazy? (Beating dead horse)

[Kenny from MD]

I hesitate to bring up the topic of Chiropractors after the last ridiculous thread, but I have a curiosity question to ask about one practice in particular.

Before the first Abu Dhabi Pro Trials that was held in Florida, I had a super stiff neck from over training and playing a retarded guard. I was sponsored at the time by a chiropractor for MMA, so he told me to come in and he would work me out. He put me on the rollers, which was nice and just felt like a massage chair. He did an "adjustment" which just cracked my joints and felt cool but didn't do anything noticeable. But he also put muscle stims on my neck, and gave me a few minutes of shocks. This, I felt like at the time, did actually made a difference, and gave me some temporary relief. I could look over my shoulder again.

Fast forward a year or two and I was in Brazil and strained my neck again. At the time, Cavaca's gym had a physio's office inside, and the physio himself was a Cavaca brown belt (now black). He treated me by putting needles in my neck like acupuncture, but then having stims attached to the needles. I can't remember if that helped or not.

Is there any definitive proof of muscle stims helping to reduce inflammation, or otherwise promote mobility (even if temporary) in strained muscles, or is it completely a placebo?

I am fine and healthy now, but just curious about the science behind it. I felt like it helped the first time, so did it, or am I just losing my mind? And before anyone says, if I felt better, then it worked... no.

 

[Badger67]

This should answer most of your questions as there are different type of stimulation as well as electrical acupuncture.

http://physicaltherapy.about.com/od/orthopedicsandpt/tp/Types-Of-Electrical-Stimulation-Used-In-Physical-Therapy.htm

It's from the Text
Prentice, W. (1998). Therapeutic modalities for allied health professionals. New York: McGraw-Hill.

Which i have and is a great tool.

That being said, some PT's and Good Chiro's don't use much stim unless a muscle is atrophying and needs to be stimulated, paralysis, or pain that hasn't diminished despite other treatment, TENS machine's can be useful. With my LCL injury, IFC became a great addition to my rehab.

 

[deadlizard]

Before the first Abu Dhabi Pro Trials that was held in Florida, I had a super stiff neck over training and playing a retarded guard. I was sponsored at the time by a chiropractor for MMA, so he told me to come in and he would work me out. He put me on the rollers, which was nice and just felt like a massage chair. He did an "adjustment" which just cracked my joints and felt cool but didn't do anything noticeable. But he also put muscle stims on my neck, and gave me a few minutes of shocks. This, I felt like at the time, did actually made a difference, and gave me some temporary relief. I could look over my shoulder again.

Is this a new guard you invented? I demand you tell me more!

 

[RetiredWisFighter]

I think Chiros do help but only to an extent. I see mine every 3 weeks and have my knee realigned from an old injury that I never had surgery for (or even looked at due to lack of insurance).

I also recently got a stim for use on my shoulder that has chronic pain (bursa issue?) it seems to provide at least temporary relief on that but after a few days or strong movements it appears to be back to stage 1.

A lot of journals are out there on the use of stims to read up on

 

[PayPerView]

"The concepts of chiropractic are not based on solid science and its therapeutic value has not been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Badger67]

"The concepts of chiropractic are not based on solid science and its therapeutic value has not been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18280103/

Basically, placebo.

None of this had anything to do with stim, of which, chiropractors follow the same stim guidelines as PT's and Doctor's. Which was what the OP was asking about, and has a lot of science behind, hence our use of them in rehab.

 

[mkt]

"The concepts of chiropractic are not based on solid science and its therapeutic value has not been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Dogstarman]

"The concepts of chiropractic are not based on solid science and its therapeutic value has not been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Kenny from MD]

None of this had anything to do with stim, of which, chiropractors follow the same stim guidelines as PT's and Doctor's. Which was what the OP was asking about, and has a lot of science behind, hence our use of them in rehab.

Yeah, this is more so what I am referring to. I know some chiropractors incorporate legitimate physical therapy into their practice, and I was wondering if muscle stims were on that side of the fence, or similar to the pseudoscientific alignment therapy stuff.

 

[Badger67]

Yeah, this is more so what I am referring to. I know some chiropractors incorporate legitimate physical therapy into their practice, and I was wondering if muscle stims were on that side of the fence, or similar to the pseudoscientific alignment therapy stuff.

There's a lot of legitimacy to Stim depending on it's usage, but many have a different school of thought to try other techniques such as joint distraction, manual manipulation, massage therapy, corrective exercises etc. Think of it as a tool in a toolbox. Read the link i posted, you can expand most o them to find out more about how they work or google the methods afterward, and the text it's sourced from is reputable.

 

[PayPerView]

Oh there's good evidence of stim? Show me some.

 

[PayPerView]

Lol. Way to answer the question TS asked. He didn't ask for your stupid remark. Some good chiros actually are good PTs. The good ones don't talk all bullshit about curing diseases with adjustments or not needing surgeries.

My guy works with an MD and refers people to him. He also refers people to an Orthopedic surgeon. He does good pt and when he needs to he refers people out.

" Some chiros actually are good PTs." That doesn't make sense unless they have both a physical therapy degree and a chiropractic degree. Which I doubt is what you meant.

You don't know what you're talking about and are emotionally invested, move along.

 

[Dirty Holt]

" Some chiros actually are good PTs." That doesn't make sense unless they have both a physical therapy degree and a chiropractic degree. Which I doubt is what you meant.

You don't know what you're talking about and are emotionally invested, move along.

It makes perfect sense. You dont need a PT degree to be competent in PT techniques.

The head of PT at our own Olympic Training Center has a chiro degree but not a PT degree. He is a brilliant PT.

 

[Badger67]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746624/

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/90/9/1219.full
http://www.mccc.edu/~behrensb/documents/InterferentialCurrentTherapy11.pdf


http://www.djoglobal.com/sites/default/files/vs_research_summary_092710.pdf

You can also read textbooks on therapeutic modalities pertaining to Stim, distraction and traction. You can also, take a class or 3 on it.

In regards to the other poster saying chiro's were actually good PT's, it's likely just a misnomer way of saying they were as good, and i have met a number of chiro's who do better rehab work than PT's and i've been in the field of rehab for 7 years. Conversely, i do know of some chiro/PT dual degree's though they are rare due to time constraints.
Also, what Holt said.
Not every chiropractor believes in reiki and violent spinal cracking or diagnosing your allergy through jars (yes i've seen some of them attempt this). Many use sound evidence that a MT/PT would use to correct the situation such as traction, joint distraction, massage etc.

 

[Dogstarman]

" Some chiros actually are good PTs." That doesn't make sense unless they have both a physical therapy degree and a chiropractic degree. Which I doubt is what you meant.

You don't know what you're talking about and are emotionally invested, move along.

Lol. Ok. What I meant is they act as a good therapist. I've been to some OR that just sucked. They just said do this stretch and stop doing strenuous exercise.

Orthos also don't want to waste their time with what they consider little bullshit injuries that they can't operate on.

Also in my state, Texas you cannot just walk into a PT, you need a prescription. So a good chiro can go a long way to longevity. I only use it when I hurt myself.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against medicine as my wife works as a mid level ortho. I think it is important to see main stream medicine all the time, but when they the ortho looks at you and says that here is this drug or use this brace walks out and you feel like you are wasting their time, sometimes you need to find an alternative to find relief.

 

[Mcmoon]

It makes perfect sense. You dont need a PT degree to be competent in PT techniques.

The head of PT at our own Olympic Training Center has a chiro degree but not a PT degree. He is a brilliant PT.

I understand what you are saying but wouldn't say I agree with it. It is like saying if do general check ups and am good and adhering to the correct principles then that would make me a doctor. Just because I'm doing everything thing right doesn't really mean I have the correct qualifications to have that title.

 

[DiegoLunes]

I injured my back doing squats and it kept getting worse for 2 years. I was to the point where I could barely get out of a car.

The only thing that worked was a chiropractor. It wasn't instant. I had to have several treatments over a month.

Chiropractic works. Often it takes time though. You can't go in expecting a miracle fix in an instant.

 

[PayPerView]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746624/

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/90/9/1219.full
http://www.mccc.edu/~behrensb/documents/InterferentialCurrentTherapy11.pdf


http://www.djoglobal.com/sites/default/files/vs_research_summary_092710.pdf

You can also read textbooks on therapeutic modalities pertaining to Stim, distraction and traction. You can also, take a class or 3 on it.

In regards to the other poster saying chiro's were actually good PT's, it's likely just a misnomer way of saying they were as good, and i have met a number of chiro's who do better rehab work than PT's and i've been in the field of rehab for 7 years. Conversely, i do know of some chiro/PT dual degree's though they are rare due to time constraints.
Also, what Holt said.
Not every chiropractor believes in reiki and violent spinal cracking or diagnosing your allergy through jars (yes i've seen some of them attempt this). Many use sound evidence that a MT/PT would use to correct the situation such as traction, joint distraction, massage etc.

I will check out the studies when I have time today.

From my understanding, stim may be effective at reducing pain but the evidence is very muddy. I am open to changing my opinion on this.

 

[PayPerView]

It makes perfect sense. You dont need a PT degree to be competent in PT techniques.

The head of PT at our own Olympic Training Center has a chiro degree but not a PT degree. He is a brilliant PT.

So the head of Physical Therapy does not have a Physical Therapy degree. I'm sure the state physical therapy board would like to know about this.

 

[FangSakuraba]

Looks up Dr Pete Goldman from San Francisco. A lot of fighters swear by him