International China:Italy may be the birthplace of COVID-19 pandemic

Chinese get their shit pushed in by everyone: the Mongols, the British Empire, Americans, French, the Imperial Japanese Army...:)

The Russians too and if I remember correctly the Koreans as well.


The Vietnamese too.

Are they soft?
 
So there may be a little truth in China's claims?

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Who knows? I think it's possible.
 
The virus is lab creation, it looks like somebody wants to blame China. And with China it is easy, a communist country...

China should not be punished for such thing at all, they should just work with China on closing the Chinese markets for the strangest animals ever!
 
The study that forms the basis of the claim is an interesting read. Would be good to read a scientific rebuttal to the report, as the Post article comments on some scientific dissent on its findings. It seems highly likely to me that the form of the virus that took a foothold in Wuhan, originated in China, but with current travel and trade patterns, its also not impossible that there were two epicentres. Im unsure as to whether the Italian outbreak can be genetically traced to Wuhan, but I do recall the case of a superspreader in the Alps who had recently returned from Singapore as one of the early introductions into Europe.
 
The study that forms the basis of the claim is an interesting read. Would be good to read a scientific rebuttal to the report, as the Post article comments on some scientific dissent on its findings. It seems highly likely to me that the form of the virus that took a foothold in Wuhan, originated in China, but with current travel and trade patterns, its also not impossible that there were two epicentres. Im unsure as to whether the Italian outbreak can be genetically traced to Wuhan, but I do recall the case of a superspreader in the Alps who had recently returned from Singapore as one of the early introductions into Europe.

The difference I would say though is that the Italians are far more transparent with their data but I have seen more indirect claims based on things like net searches and hospital numbers in Wuhan that would push the virus back as far as August 2019.

I mean if the virus had started in Italy it seems a bit strange it would be transferred to Wuhan before it would any European countries were as by comparison I think moving from Wuhan to Italy via Chinese tourists seems much more likely.

What you could argue I spose is that this shows the virus spread wasnt quite as wildfire like as has been suggested and that something could/should have been done in Italy much sooner and that this epicenter was the one which spread around the world.
 
China is hilarious. They actually have a similar culture like India where even if you are caught red handed, you lie. It’s considered unbecoming to admit fault. The east is really backwards in this regard. The whole world knows China started this virus, yet with a straight face they will say “No” and they even have the audacity to pretend like they beat the virus already too.

Saw this first hand at a Robotics competition. Both Chinas teams were disqualified for cheating.
 
2019/2020 cold/flu season
so there is a report that a case was identified in mid November in china
due to lack of transparency I tend to think that china is much more likely
 
The whole “face” culture is retarded.

It made me respect the Western way of doing things much more when learning about things like that
It's pure dishonesty and as dishonourable as you can get, nevermind counterproductive. There's no self improvement without accepting accountability for ones actions.
 
so there is a report that a case was identified in mid November in china
due to lack of transparency I tend to think that china is much more likely
I don't have enough evidence to say, but I think Covid-19 was already in Italy before they realised. It could explain why it blew up as it did.
 
The difference I would say though is that the Italians are far more transparent with their data but I have seen more indirect claims based on things like net searches and hospital numbers in Wuhan that would push the virus back as far as August 2019.

I mean if the virus had started in Italy it seems a bit strange it would be transferred to Wuhan before it would any European countries were as by comparison I think moving from Wuhan to Italy via Chinese tourists seems much more likely.

What you could argue I spose is that this shows the virus spread wasnt quite as wildfire like as has been suggested and that something could/should have been done in Italy much sooner and that this epicenter was the one which spread around the world.

Virus evolution studies have placed the emergence in October/November, so the presence of antibodies in Italy as early as Sept 3rd (which would point to infection in mid-late August) would need to be explained. Testing issues aside, one explanation could be that a progenitor virus/viruses of limited transmission to the pandemic virus was circulating in Italy and this is what the tests are detecting. It really only takes one person with a particular strain to start a pandemic -which could be a traveller from Italy-China.

It seems highly likely that the virus originated in a bat in China, but where it went after that is the mystery. There are signs of human infection of a similar virus in March 2019 in China, and the index patient is considered to be in China on Dec 1 2019, as well as Wuhan obviously serving as the epicentre to the outbreak. Perhaps an earlier version moved from China-Italy and back? Its possible early cases in Italy were unrecognised and not diagnosed. Maybe we will find out eventually.
 
There is no dispute that the first outbreak of COVID-19 occurred in China. No amount of finger pointing will change that.

Even if it's not China this time, the way they handle their food supply chain is bound to cause some other outbreak sooner or later.

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China is hilarious. They actually have a similar culture like India where even if you are caught red handed, you lie. It’s considered unbecoming to admit fault. The east is really backwards in this regard. The whole world knows China started this virus, yet with a straight face they will say “No” and they even have the audacity to pretend like they beat the virus already too.
Having lived in the Middle East I can say that Not admitting fault and trying to pin the blame on the victim is the norm.
 
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