Cheap submissions

[ozyabbas]

"If he taps, its Jiu Jitsu" - Rodrigo Gracie



"Here, in the street, in competition, a man confronts you he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy." - Sensei John Kreese

Rodrigo Gracie was doing a seminar at my old gym and rolled with some of the blue belts afterwards.

He taps out one of the blue belts by crunches the guys face into his (sweaty) chest, not as a crank but to suffocate him. It looking like when a guy puts a pillow on someone to kill him.

I thought that was uncalled for, hes a blackbelt so he should be able to get more traditional submissions without having to resort to something like that. The blue belt was much smaller than him but does have an irritating flexible guard.

I don't think that all submissions in class are game. Some submissions are too dangerous or just foster bad habits (such as not trying to pass guard) for regular training.

 

[YeahBee]

^^^^ me too, and my throat hurts like hell if I tought out a choke

 

[Shemhazai]

Rodrigo Gracie was doing a seminar at my old gym and rolled with some of the blue belts afterwards.

He taps out one of the blue belts by crunches the guys face into his (sweaty) chest, not as a crank but to suffocate him. It looking like when a guy puts a pillow on someone to kill him.

I thought that was uncalled for, hes a blackbelt so he should be able to get more traditional submissions without having to resort to something like that. The blue belt was much smaller than him but does have an irritating flexible guard.

I don't think that all submissions in class are game. Some submissions are too dangerous or just foster bad habits (such as not trying to pass guard) for regular training.

My black belt instructor does the same thing. He also hits rape chokes. Whatever gets the tap, you know ...

 

[SteveQ]

I get frustrated when someone gets me in a quick keylock or something like that because I know I was just asking for it, but I still wouldnt call it cheap

 

[ozyabbas]

My black belt instructor does the same thing. He also hits rape chokes. Whatever gets the tap, you know ...

Sorry, im a bit behind the times but whats a rape choke. Is it the kinda one where you actively put your hands round the opponents neck sort of how Sperry opens up peoples guards in no gi.

 

[Tony Manifold]

I tHink face cranks are fair game, you just need to be careful. I don't crank them fast or too hard and I don't get pissed unless someone does. The only "cheap subs" are fingers and toes.

 

[ViceGrip]

Sorry, im a bit behind the times but whats a rape choke. Is it the kinda one where you actively put your hands round the opponents neck sort of how Sperry opens up peoples guards in no gi.[/QUOTE

Yep.

 

[PhillyD45]

No cheap subs. The goal is to win by pain or choke.
You don't like it? Prevent me from doing it.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Rodrigo Gracie was doing a seminar at my old gym and rolled with some of the blue belts afterwards.

He taps out one of the blue belts by crunches the guys face into his (sweaty) chest, not as a crank but to suffocate him. It looking like when a guy puts a pillow on someone to kill him.

I thought that was uncalled for, hes a blackbelt so he should be able to get more traditional submissions without having to resort to something like that. The blue belt was much smaller than him but does have an irritating flexible guard.

I don't think that all submissions in class are game. Some submissions are too dangerous or just foster bad habits (such as not trying to pass guard) for regular training.

Since when is not trying to pass the guard bad habit?

Nice joke.

 

[ozyabbas]

I think the definition of what a cheap technique (not only submissions, could be a type of pass/guard/pin etc) varies from person to person. Most people so far have concentrated on just submissions.

I first remember the term cheap (please no silly sarcastic comments) also came with the word meth. Which was used in relation to games such as Streetfighter 2 where some people would use certain techniques or tactics which usually didn't use much skill, made the fights boring but usually resulted in a win. If I remember correctly, some people would use a fireball and make the person jump then uppercut. If the person didn't jump it would do block damage.

I was trying to relate this to grappling. I would say that taking a person down, holding out untill the timers gone then winning on those 2 points would be an example of a cheap tactic.

 

[ozyabbas]

Since when is not trying to pass the guard bad habit?

Nice joke.

An example would be people who don't try to practice passing the guard but just attack the legs endlessly. Im not saying leglocks are a bad thing, they are excellent submissions and very usefull as giant killers. The people people who really utilise leglocks and are very proficient at using them are usually also good at passing the guard and have all round good abilities.

Many of the more famous bjj/catch wrestlers who extensively use leglocks can also get position. In training you will just find some guys who only try poorly executed achilles ankle locks or toe holds.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

An example would be people who don't try to practice passing the guard but just attack the legs endlessly. Im not saying leglocks are a bad thing, they are excellent submissions and very usefull as giant killers. The people people who really utilise leglocks and are very proficient at using them are usually also good at passing the guard and have all round good abilities.

Many of the more famous bjj/catch wrestlers who extensively use leglocks can also get position. In training you will just find some guys who only try poorly executed achilles ankle locks or toe holds.

Better

 

[Tony Manifold]

An example would be people who don't try to practice passing the guard but just attack the legs endlessly. Im not saying leglocks are a bad thing, they are excellent submissions and very usefull as giant killers. The people people who really utilise leglocks and are very proficient at using them are usually also good at passing the guard and have all round good abilities.

Many of the more famous bjj/catch wrestlers who extensively use leglocks can also get position. In training you will just find some guys who only try poorly executed achilles ankle locks or toe holds.

I was totally that guy for like a year. Back in the late 90's know leg locks was a huge advantage and I just stopped passing guard for like a year. It was a bad idea in hindsight. Now, I still love leg locks but I only take them when they present themselves rather than use it as a way to defeat a guard.

 

[Mike MacDonald]

I dont think there are any cheap submissions.

 

[SilenceKit]

I always thought of the face crank as a cheap sub, especially when they can't finish the rnc.

werd.

 

[SFinclined]

I don't consider any submissions cheap, but I don't like to use the guillotine in practice, I would rather work to get back on top or out of a bad position since those are weak points for me.

 

[Systemanoob**]

If it's legal it's not a cheap submission. You guys complain about face cranks? How are you going to feel when you have guys have people raining down elbows and punches on your face? Get used to it.

 

[sambayless]

the only time a sub can be called cheap is when you are rolling and you tell the guy "oh my shoulder is a little tweaked right now" and they try to use your messed up shoulder as an advantage. i have jaw problems and ill tap when there is too much pressure on it and a few guys will just go and put their hands right on there to make me tap

 

[Shemhazai]

Sorry, im a bit behind the times but whats a rape choke. Is it the kinda one where you actively put your hands round the opponents neck sort of how Sperry opens up peoples guards in no gi.

It's basically just a good ol' fashioned one-handed throttling, except you only push down on the trachea, since closing your hand around it and squeezing is illegal.

 

[burton.]

I agree with the face/neck locks. And while i know this submission isn't cheap there's this kid in my class who seems to exclusively go for it. I don't know the exact name but basically it's one of the few subs you can do in someones guard... where you put one forearm/arm behind the head and grab the sleeve of your gi, then put your other forearm/arm across their throat and squeeze. It works well if you pull it off, and i know it's not cheap but i don't think it's a very technical sub.