Chael Sonnen explains how EPO is taken orally and used in skin cream....

[Mebetter]

Chael admitted that he used PEDs, unlike fighters who try to deny it
GOAT

First failure of two different PEDs, I'm just trying to start a family with my wife and have a baby, I need it to cycle off of TRT. Then got busted for HGH and EPO...

 

[dim_]

Come on. Why are you still trying to die on this hill? Are you saying these drugs have no potential use for abuse?
It's like arguing designer drugs vs Steroids. For example, a lot of sarms are not steroids but they do the same thing.

of course they have potential for abuse, USADA already screen for them

BUT THEY ARE NOT EPO

The topic is "can epo be administered orally" not "can some drug that isnt actually epo be administered orally"

I can administer a fucking tampon orally BUT ITS NOT EPO

They aren't going to look at blood values first? before using chromatography or mass spectrometry?

actually no they dont. At least two of the HIF prolyl-hydroxylase inhibitor are screened as part of regular screens as very early in their developments the manufacturers shared information with anti doping authorites regarding signatures of the drugs and detection.

 

[milenss]

GSP doesn't use Vaseline though.

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

TJ basically admitted he did it on purpose so it's a dead issue anyway...

 

[NoSmilez]

of course they have potential for abuse, USADA already screen for them

BUT THEY ARE NOT EPO

The topic is "can epo be administered orally" not "can some drug that isnt actually epo be administered orally"

I can administer a fucking tampon orally BUT ITS NOT EPO



actually no they dont. At least two of the HIF prolyl-hydroxylase inhibitor are screened as part of regular screens as very early in their developments the manufacturers shared information with anti doping authorites regarding signatures of the drugs and detection.

How would they detect those drugs using what? not mass spec? or liquid chromatography? Dude you really think it's some magic when they test for things?

 

[dim_]

Come on. Why are you still trying to die on this hill? Are you saying these drugs have no potential use for abuse?
It's like arguing designer drugs vs Steroids. For example, a lot of sarms are not steroids but they do the same thing.
Those drugs are biologics that have the same effect as EPO. You think monitoring parameters for therapy would be different? They aren't going to look at blood values first? before using chromatography or mass spectrometry?

So basically your argument has moved from

"Epo can be taken orally"

to

"something that isnt actually epo can be taken orally"



dude you are rolling down the hill chasing a piece of cheese that you are never gonna catch..

 

[dim_]

How would they detect those drugs using what? not mass spec? or liquid chromatography? Dude you really think it's some magic when they test for things?

im saying the primary detection method doesnt have to be studying blood values because several of those drugs are already easily detectible by standard chromatography. the manufacturers shared signatures and detection methods with wada

but its irrelevant, because they are NOT epo..

the discussion is "are epo taken orally or topically" and the answer, is a resounding NO..

 

[NoSmilez]

So basically your argument has moved from

"Epo can be taken orally"

to

"something that isnt actually epo can be taken orally"



dude you are rolling down the hill chasing a piece of cheese that you are never gonna catch..

You said those formulations don't exist. I showed you that route exists. Companies never moved forward because topicals did not show better results vs IV/SQ. There are also other biologics in that class that do the same thing. These class of drugs exists. So you are telling someone who wants to cheat can't go back to using a topical?

 

[dim_]

OMG microneedle is a type of transdermal patch. IE TOPICAL PATCH. I am out arguing with a layman.

do they penetrate the skin? yes. they involve puncturing the skin.

 

[dim_]

You said those formulations don't exist. I showed you that route exists. Companies never moved forward because topicals did not show better results vs IV/SQ. There are also other biologics in that class that do the same thing. These class of drugs exists. So you are telling someone who wants to cheat can't go back to using a topical?

THEY ARENT FUCKING EPO

Jesus christ, were you born stupid or have you worked at it?

Find me instances of athletes applying EPO either topically or orally please...

just because the possibility was scientifically explored 20 years ago for totally different purposes, does not mean it has ever been adopted by athletes, nor will it ever be adopted by athletes, and does not mean that it has ever been adopted or ever will be, by members of the medical community.

I can publish a study looking at whether sticking a plastic train up your arse can cause bowel cancer, but it doesnt mean its ever going to be a thing, or even is a thing.

 

[ThePatriot]

Never heard of EPO skin creams. But then again, I'm no groundhog expert like Chael.

Hes lying/attention whoring, chaels a contrarian trying to find an out for TJ

 

[NoSmilez]

THEY ARENT FUCKING EPO

Jesus christ, were you born stupid or have you worked at it?

Find me instances of athletes applying EPO either topically or orally please...

just because the possibility was scientifically explored 20 years ago for totally different purposes, does not mean it has ever been adopted by athletes, nor will it ever be adopted by athletes, and does not mean that it has ever been adopted or ever will be, by members of the medical community.

I can publish a study looking at whether sticking a plastic train up your arse can cause bowel cancer, but it doesnt mean its ever going to be a thing, or even is a thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3372031/ WHAT IS THIS THEN? HOly fuck you are so stubborn. The route fucking exists. There are also biosimiliars to EPO on the market and Biologics closely related to it.
Why wouldn't people who want to cheat look into using another delivery system?

 

[dim_]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3372031/ WHAT IS THIS THEN? HOly fuck you are so stubborn. The route fucking exists. There are also biosimiliars to EPO on the market and Biologics closely related to it.
Why wouldn't people who want to cheat look into using another delivery system?

its a study on fucking premature babies, wtf has this to do with adult athletes..

show me a study where they have administered epo orally on humans to improve performance

show me reports of athletes using epo orally


And stop harping on about biosimilars.. we are ONLY talking about rEPO.. nothing else..

 

[acannxr]

THEY ARENT FUCKING EPO

Jesus christ, were you born stupid or have you worked at it?

Find me instances of athletes applying EPO either topically or orally please...

just because the possibility was scientifically explored 20 years ago for totally different purposes, does not mean it has ever been adopted by athletes, nor will it ever be adopted by athletes, and does not mean that it has ever been adopted or ever will be, by members of the medical community.

I can publish a study looking at whether sticking a plastic train up your arse can cause bowel cancer, but it doesnt mean its ever going to be a thing, or even is a thing.

As a rule of thumb I generally only repeat myself once on these forums, I'd suggest you do the same, because often times the person you're replying to is one of the following: too prideful to admit they're wrong, too ignorant to know they're wrong, or keep saying the same thing in order to troll you.

 

[NoSmilez]

its a study on fucking premature babies, wtf has this to do with adult athletes..

show me a study where they have administered epo orally on humans to improve performance

show me reports of athletes using epo orally


And stop harping on about biosimilars.. we are ONLY talking about rEPO.. nothing else..

oh fuck off. You said oral EPO doesn't increase hematocrit before. I am going to lunch. You are being super stubborn. Now you are telling me it doesn't do it.

 

[vgff]

AH - Could it be that someone is found with EPO in their system unknowlingly?

Chael - Most definitely, there are other ways to get it aside from injectable. Im giving you a very broad stroke and im covering about 99.9%. There is other ways to get it into your system. You dont only have two choices of oral or injectible. There are other ways.

There is some coaches in history, I can think of an athlete specifically, last name of Vargas who coach was applying substances to him and using a topical emso which will take it through the skin into the body, into the veins, and spread out into the organs from there.. There is a third way and its very possible that athletes could have that done to them.

As shady and unbelievable as that story is, theres other people in the gym saying, yes, they would give us this while they start working on a massage, there was an oil type substance, Ive got banned substances in my system that Ive never even heard of.

None of those is an excuse that TJ has offered, to make clear to the listener here, but to answer your question specifically, a coach, and is has happened before to amatuer athletes, i can think of a wrestler specifically, out of Turkey where they did an investigation and it was proven the coach was rubbing this on his athletes without their knowledge.




its the first segment on the show...

I should note that Ariel preceded this by stating that "nobody knows more about this subject than this man"

at some point, i hope Ariel realize he should get in contact with actual experts to discuss these things, if he doesn't want to misinform an entire audience...given that Ariel is still the biggest MMA media personality when that time comes

 

[PicoPulse]

When you are in Hell,looking up to heaven,wondering where you went wrong,it was here.

Lol FUCK Heaven and Hell!