Cerrone VS Pettis (Stand Up)

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Theres been vids of Pettis posted on here competing at ATA tournaments.

 

[Bay Area]

Googling Dan Hardy crediting Shaolin Kung Fu to his MMA has led me to this thread. There is no need to lie to push the point you are having difficulty making. Pettis is a third degree TKD black belt working on his fourth. He teaches kids in his spare time. He says that Taekwondo is the base of his standup. He has twenty times the experience you do. Yet you continue to disagree. I don't quite understand that.

The thing is, Cerrone is credited as having a very pure Thai style. Pettis looks totally different. Why are you claiming that both Pettis and Cerrone can have a style you'd describe as "Muay Thai" that are so different, yet Taekwondo can't have the same range?

Also... I heard Pettis was ATA. Gotta verify that.

A. Dan Hardy does have a Kung Fu background

B. When did I credit Pettis as Muay Thai?

 

[Bay Area]

Pettis is gonna be champ. This kid is fucking scary good.

Im not convinced yet. He was hand picked that fight. Why not fight Gray Maynard? Pettis still got rag dolled by Clay Guida ya know

 

[ssullivan80]

Im not convinced yet. He was hand picked that fight. Why not fight Gray Maynard? Pettis still got rag dolled by Clay Guida ya know

Agreed! He is undoubtedly very talented. But IMO, Maynard would beat him and probably do so rather convincingly.

 

[devante]

i get bay area's argument, i don't think he is saying that pettis didn't use tkd; i think he is saying he didn't see anything that stood out as tkd in regards to techniques, basically saying if we didn't know pettis was a 3rd degree tkd blackbelt..would your first thought be that he is using tkd...

most people think like this, how many times have tma guys said this guy didn't use legit wing chun or this guy hasn't trained boxing or hasn't done muay thai, cus his form sucks..his stance is all wrong...etc etc.

ex-when saamag posted videos of me and him doing some boxing sparring/kickboxing sparring, people pointed out that isn't boxing; your mixing karate/kung fu in there or that isn't mt kickboxing those are clearly karate/tkd kicks. Specific things he did had people calling into question what art he was using or what style he was expressing...

people have a bias or preference and if they don't see certain things, they won't recognize it as a certain style..example if an mma guy fought like prince naseem hamed; we would say he is unorthodox or crazy, we might not say he is boxing. But because we see hamed in a boxing ring, we attribute it to boxing; put a guy in the street doing the same thing or in the cage, all of a sudden he is a sloppy brawler or unorthodox striker.

so all bay area is saying is he didn't see any specific tech that would make him say, hey this guy is using tkd, he isn't saying he didn't use it.

 

[peanut66]

tkd as we see it today doesnt look like tkd that was taught to me by my instructors and competitors from a generation ago ,

my original tkd roots are from korea , and then i was trained by someone who taught tkd to US army rangers , and then i was trained in wtf tkd (olympic style ).

the fundamentals of my training roots is tkd , but all of those phases of my training looked different ,
if you bring someone who competed in tkd in the 70,s and early 80's to a tkd competion today , they would coment on that is not the tkd competition they knew ,

things evolve , ive made the point in the past the tkd teachings vary from club to club and competitors mimic their instructor and or othetr competitors ,

what do you think pettis' student tkd will lokk like ? ill bet something very similar to his own style ,

pettis style is a hybrid of muay thai / kickboxing and tkd , the tkd you are expecting to see has to be changed because of the punching and takedowns of mma competition , pettis tweeked his style to suit that type of competition

 

[Bay Area]

i get bay area's argument, i don't think he is saying that pettis didn't use tkd; i think he is saying he didn't see anything that stood out as tkd in regards to techniques, basically saying if we didn't know pettis was a 3rd degree tkd blackbelt..would your first thought be that he is using tkd...

This right here. Everyone is saying Pettis used TKD on Saturday. Then when I ask why, they say well he trained in TKD for 20 years, and blah blah. Well he trains in a shit load of other stuff，so why is TKD getting credit? Are you guys saying it doesn't matter what we see in the cage, as long as the fighter says he is doing xyz, then that's what it is? Roy Nelson says he is a kung fu fighter. Did he do Kung Fu against JDS when they fought? I suppose Anderson used TKD against Forrest too.

 

[Bay Area]

Agreed! He is undoubtedly very talented. But IMO, Maynard would beat him and probably do so rather convincingly.

I think Pettis still would win, but we will never know cuz he is being groomed for the belt. A young good looking kid from the streets who worked his way up to the top... the story writes itself. And most of all, he is exciting and puts on a show. The last thing the UFC wants is another wrestler sleeping on top of him for 25 minutes

 

[ssullivan80]

I think Pettis still would win, but we will never know cuz he is being groomed for the belt. A young good looking kid from the streets who worked his way up to the top... the story writes itself. And most of all, he is exciting and puts on a show. The last thing the UFC wants is another wrestler sleeping on top of him for 25 minutes

Which IMO is exactly what would happen. Petis is talented, but i don't think he's physically capable of keeping a guy like Maynard from just holding him down on the mat and punishing him. So long as he kept it up and on the feet, he'd be fine, but I don't see that happening either. Good news, he's young and I'm sure he will be around and at the top of the heap for a good while.

 

[Madmick]

I know you guys are right. I'm letting my unabashed preference for top-level striking make me swoon.

 

[Jukai]

A. Dan Hardy does have a Kung Fu background

B. When did I credit Pettis as Muay Thai?

A. Having a background is different from having a base. You know this.

B. Then what do you credit his abilities to, space kung fu?

This right here. Everyone is saying Pettis used TKD on Saturday. Then when I ask why, they say well he trained in TKD for 20 years, and blah blah. Well he trains in a shit load of other stuff，so why is TKD getting credit? Are you guys saying it doesn't matter what we see in the cage, as long as the fighter says he is doing xyz, then that's what it is? Roy Nelson says he is a kung fu fighter. Did he do Kung Fu against JDS when they fought? I suppose Anderson used TKD against Forrest too.

I think people are saying that he used his taekwondo background to beat the more kickboxing centric style of Cerrone. Which is true. Not that he did a triple tornado kick or that his technique is pristine TKD, but once again, he is still using his TKD style out there. How things look is different for different rules. Because he has to deal with takedowns and clinching, he can't stand straight up with his hands down like an Olympic TKD competitor. That doesn't mean he's not doing TKD.

Are you saying no one uses nak muay thai in MMA? Because I sure as hell don't see it.

Roy Nelson doesn't credit his Kung Fu for anything and doesn't train in it anymore. Anderson still goes back and trains in TKD. Very poor comparison.

 

[Jukai]

Agreed! He is undoubtedly very talented. But IMO, Maynard would beat him and probably do so rather convincingly.

Styles make fights. I think Maynard would beat Pettis convincingly. I think Bendo would beat Maynard convincingly. I think Pettis will beat Bendo, and yes, convincingly.

 

[devante]

Agreed! He is undoubtedly very talented. But IMO, Maynard would beat him and probably do so rather convincingly.

disagree..

i know guida is a wrestler; but by using alot of movemement-feints-and broken rhythm striking, clay guida effectively shut down gray maynards striking offense and wrestling offense.


maynard is heavy handed and heavy footed, he has issues closing distance against guys who can or are willing to maintain dist and not fight in the rhythm..range he likes best; its the prob he had w/edgar, frankie fought at a range that limited the effectiveness of maynards only real striking weapon, his hands. On top of that frankie kept circling, forcing gray to reset or catching gray out of position so that he caught him w/those rushes or would potshot him w/that lead right then circle out again and repeat..after three fights gray still had no idea how to cut frankie off consistently or def/counter that lead right.

pettis isn't the wrestler guida or frankie is, but he is multi dimensional in his foot work and he is multi dimensional in his striking; meaning the same base level issues gray had w/the other two, he will have w/pettis. I.e. not being able to eff stay in range, get in range or navigate range w/out getting picked apart..spuns and left out of range/position again.

more importantly pettis has more diverse striking, he can attack the legs, body and head w/knees-elbows-kicks-punches; an he is a consistent and effective counter striker...

now gray could get him and wear him down, but gray tends to fade when having to keep up a pace and gray tends to get lazy and angry when you won't fight him the way he wants, i.e. meet him at the point of contact...

huerta-diaz-siver-miller-clementi-are the guys he did his best work agaisnt,all guys are fairly one dimensional strikers; either they are mostly hand type strikers or guys who's def/footwork is limited at best. Guys who aren't eff when pushed back or pressure, guys who are available to be gotten a hold of..

against guida ..maynards limited off was exposed, he he had an eff kicking game; that bullsh*t guida pulled wouldn't have worked, same thing w/edgar..that was proven by ben henderson..

his size power and wrestling make him a threat, esp against a non wrestler like pettis, his gas tank-lack of def-an chin make him a highlight reel in waiting .

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Guida ran and refused to engage the whole fight! Running away is not nullifying anything. And I'm a guy that thought Condit did a great job against Diaz!

 

[devante]

Guida ran and refused to engage the whole fight! Running away is not nullifying anything. And I'm a guy that thought Condit did a great job against Diaz!

i can see that argument...

but a)clay did engage, he landed strikes on maynard; khalib starnes ran, he didn't attempt any offense...and clay got marked up meaning he engaged at some point b)my point still stands against guys who move maynard has been less than stellar...

 

[Discipulus]

This right here. Everyone is saying Pettis used TKD on Saturday. Then when I ask why, they say well he trained in TKD for 20 years, and blah blah. Well he trains in a shit load of other stuff，so why is TKD getting credit? Are you guys saying it doesn't matter what we see in the cage, as long as the fighter says he is doing xyz, then that's what it is? Roy Nelson says he is a kung fu fighter. Did he do Kung Fu against JDS when they fought? I suppose Anderson used TKD against Forrest too.

Then why don't you point out the aspects of his style that are or aren't TKD, instead of only saying that you don't see TKD when you look at him. I tried to be specific, but you're keeping it pretty abstract. What about his style says Muay Thai, instead of TKD?

 

[Discipulus]

Guida ran and refused to engage the whole fight! Running away is not nullifying anything. And I'm a guy that thought Condit did a great job against Diaz!

Pettis is different, though. He's got the movement and the footwork, but when he leaps in to strike, it hurts a hell of a lot more than anything Guida could ever hope to throw.

 

[Discipulus]

A. Having a background is different from having a base. You know this.

B. Then what do you credit his abilities to, space kung fu?



I think people are saying that he used his taekwondo background to beat the more kickboxing centric style of Cerrone. Which is true. Not that he did a triple tornado kick or that his technique is pristine TKD, but once again, he is still using his TKD style out there. How things look is different for different rules. Because he has to deal with takedowns and clinching, he can't stand straight up with his hands down like an Olympic TKD competitor. That doesn't mean he's not doing TKD.

Are you saying no one uses nak muay thai in MMA? Because I sure as hell don't see it.

Roy Nelson doesn't credit his Kung Fu for anything and doesn't train in it anymore. Anderson still goes back and trains in TKD. Very poor comparison.

This is what I'm saying. The ruleset is what defines the appearance of the art, to a very large degree. Especially considering how much the rules of WTF TKD limit the application of the full art in that type of competition.

Devante, you pointed out that he trained in ITF, or some other "style" of Taekwondo. But I say it doesn't matter, because if you look at ITF guys competing under WTF rules, it all looks very much like Olympic Taekwondo. Take any of those guys and put them in kickboxing, and you won't see the same thing. Some guys will be more comfortable using all the aspects of their training, like the surfing footwork and the counter kicking and all that; but I guarantee you a lot of guys would definitely modify their style for TKD.

I don't understand why someone who trains in the style would deliberately limit the definition of that style in such a way that it pretty much never gets representation in full contact fighting. No on in MMA is going to fight that way. Except Fred Ettish, and we know how that worked out.

 

[ssullivan80]

Styles make fights. I think Maynard would beat Pettis convincingly. I think Bendo would beat Maynard convincingly. I think Pettis will beat Bendo, and yes, convincingly.

Agreed!

Other than Pettis beating Bendo, which he absolutely could but I doubt it'd be convincingly. Bendo's a smart enough fighter that once he realized that exchanging with Pettis on the feet is unwise, he'll resort to dragging him down and overpowering him. I think it a very good fight, but hardly one where I'd see it as a convincing victory for either.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Pettis is different, though. He's got the movement and the footwork, but when he leaps in to strike, it hurts a hell of a lot more than anything Guida could ever hope to throw.

I agree with you and dev, Pettis is a whole different animal and a way better striker than Guida.
I think Maynard might be able to take him down though!