Cerrone VS Pettis (Stand Up)

[Discipulus]

People get so caught up in the superficial details of styles, as if they really matter. If you've got the right principles, it doesn't matter what you call them. The source of those principles is generally the style that fighters claim, and Pettis himself obviously believes that his style is most informed by the fundamentals he learned in TKD.

Look, guys:



Tell me that Kyryllo's heavy bag work doesn't look like the kind of stuff that Pettis would do. And I'm fairly certain that, not only is Kyryllo a TKD practitioner, but he teaches the art as well. And this is what his TKD looks like. Probably what Legs Mahoney's TKD looks like, as well. The same techniques look different in Olympic TKD, and I feel like that's what a lot of you are expecting when you hear the art get name dropped.

 

[Paradigm]

People get so caught up in the superficial details of styles, as if they really matter. If you've got the right principles, it doesn't matter what you call them. The source of those principles is generally the style that fighters claim, and Pettis himself obviously believes that his style is most informed by the fundamentals he learned in TKD.

Look, guys:



Tell me that Kyryllo's heavy bag work doesn't look like the kind of stuff that Pettis would do. And I'm fairly certain that, not only is Kyryllo a TKD practitioner, but he teaches the art as well. And this is what his TKD looks like. Probably what Legs Mahoney's TKD looks like, as well. The same techniques look different in Olympic TKD, and I feel like that's what a lot of you are expecting when you hear the art get name dropped.

yeah, but there was more TKD style stuff in the first 60 seconds of this vid than what Pettis threw in the entire fight. it looks like Kyryllo lands with his foot most of the time. how much of that Pettis fight looked like TKD techniques? if we're talking footwork and what not, couldn't you attribute that to boxing also? obviously, he's a higher level TKD practitioner but doesn't Karate teach good footwork as well?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

even gots the pettis monkey cartwheel kick:icon_chee

 

[Protectandserve]

That Spidey video is awesome. Makes my inner need really happy.

 

[Bay Area]

People get so caught up in the superficial details of styles, as if they really matter. If you've got the right principles, it doesn't matter what you call them. The source of those principles is generally the style that fighters claim, and Pettis himself obviously believes that his style is most informed by the fundamentals he learned in TKD.

Look, guys:



Tell me that Kyryllo's heavy bag work doesn't look like the kind of stuff that Pettis would do. And I'm fairly certain that, not only is Kyryllo a TKD practitioner, but he teaches the art as well. And this is what his TKD looks like. Probably what Legs Mahoney's TKD looks like, as well. The same techniques look different in Olympic TKD, and I feel like that's what a lot of you are expecting when you hear the art get name dropped.

You are contradicting yourself here homie. On one hand you say let's not get caught up in the specifics of what TKD is. On the other hand you post a vid and say this is what TKD is and this is what Pettis is doing. So which is it? Is TKD a style we can visually identify, or isn't it... homie.

 

[Discipulus]

yeah, but there was more TKD style stuff in the first 60 seconds of this vid than what Pettis threw in the entire fight. it looks like Kyryllo lands with his foot most of the time. how much of that Pettis fight looked like TKD techniques? if we're talking footwork and what not, couldn't you attribute that to boxing also? obviously, he's a higher level TKD practitioner but doesn't Karate teach good footwork as well?

I disagree. I think people, hearing TKD, expect this--

--and see this--

--and automatically say that it doesn't look like sport TKD, so it must be Muay Thai. (Sorry for the less-than-ideal example; turns out it's just about impossible to find a photo of two Taekwondo fighters just standing in stance).

And yes, you can attribute good footwork to boxing, or Karate, or whatever. What matters is that Pettis himself attributes his style to his TKD background. If the man doing the fighting says that that's what influences his fighting the most, then I'm comfortable calling what he does TKD.

For the record, here's Kyryllo in a TKD match:

Spoiler

And here he is kickboxing on the heavy bag:

Spoiler

Different rulesets will yield different applications. Did anyone tell Francisco Filho that he's not doing Kyokushin when he didn't come out with his arms hugged in tight to his chest and throw only bodyshots?

(And you'll find plenty of shin kicks in that and the other video)

You are contradicting yourself here homie. On one hand you say let's not get caught up in the specifics of what TKD is. On the other hand you post a vid and say this is what TKD is and this is what Pettis is doing. So which is it? Is TKD a style we can visually identify, or isn't it... homie.

Nah, homie. I'm not contradicting myself at all. I'm saying that what Kyryllo is doing is TKD as much as what Pettis is doing. It's as much TKD as what Ben Henderson does, too. Yuta Kubo is one of my favorite kickboxers, and he fights under the TKD banner as well. Why would anyone be surprised when a TKD fighter doesn't come into the Octagon and carry himself just like he would in an Olympic TKD match? Is it not TKD unless he throws endless spinning kick counters? Is it not TKD if he connects with his shin? If the guy claims that his kicks come from his time training TKD, who's to say that it's not TKD? A boxer's style can be influenced by a kickboxing or wrestling background, even if he doesn't come out at the bell in a boxing bout with a head kick or trying to shoot a double.

 

[Bay Area]

I'm saying that what Kyryllo is doing is TKD as much as what Pettis is doing.

But WHAT is he doing is my quesiton. What specifically is Pettis or was Pettis doing last night that made it TKD? You are saying he is doing TKD. Why? Don't tell me what he said in an interview. What did he do on Saturday night?

 

[Terror Zone]

Those Kyryllo videos are a serious throwback, I remember learning the Brazilian kick from his instructional in like 2007.

 

[Discipulus]

But WHAT is he doing is my quesiton. What specifically is Pettis or was Pettis doing last night that made it TKD? You are saying he is doing TKD. Why? Don't tell me what he said in an interview. What did he do on Saturday night?

Um, threw kicks and punches? I would describe his attack as being one defined by the foot and the fist, in a way. Wouldn't you?

 

[Paradigm]

Um, threw kicks and punches? I would describe his attack as being one defined by the foot and the fist, in a way. Wouldn't you?

if you're gonna describe what he did as that, his style may as well be "striking" (or something).

 

[Discipulus]

if you're gonna describe what he did as that, his style may as well be "striking" (or something).

You guys don't understand what I'm saying. TKD and Muay teach some techniques that are virtually identical. Factor in the countless instructors, all having honed their technique to their particular builds and preferences, and you have such a wide array of variations of techniques that are, in essence, basically the same. Pettis trained in TKD. He says that TKD forms the basis of his standup. Why, then, is it difficult for you to call what he does TKD?

What does Pettis have to do for you to be convinced that he is not using Muay Thai? Throw a side kick? Throw more spinning kicks? Throw front snap kicks? Those are attacks that exist in both Muay Thai and Taekdwondo. They're merely emphasized more in TKD. But shin kicks, knees, elbow strikes--those all exist in both arts as well, just more emphasized in Muay Thai. Pettis uses Taekwondo because Pettis uses Taekwondo. You can't say what all the little superficial differences are that make it not TKD. All you can say is that it doesn't look like the Olympic sport, so it must be Muay Thai. Well, it doesn't really look like Muay Thai, either. It looks like kickboxing, which is a blanket term for--you guessed it--a whole bunch of different martial arts. And Pettis' brand of kickboxing, according to the man himself, is derived from his TKD background.

This is why boxing has a technical leg up on other striking arts, for the most part. No boxing trainer in his right mind would ever get into an argument over what the origin of a useful technique was. He wouldn't look at a certain brand of uppercut and refuse to teach it to his fighter because "that's Cuban boxing, not American boxing." And yet this happens, with endless style vs. style debates, in the TMA and kickfighting community all the time. Striking is striking. The human body has a pretty limited range of techniques of which it is capable. They've figured this out in the Grappling subforum. How silly does it sound to say that a BJJ guy doing a leglock is actually doing Sambo, because Sambo is better known for leglock specialists? The grappling world has, at least among the hardcore students, stopped clamoring for labels. But for some reason the same attitude eludes us over here in the humble Standup Forum.

tl;dr If a man says his kick is a Taekwondo kick, and he trained Taekwondo, why on earth are you telling him he's wrong? And more importantly, why does it matter?

 

[Paradigm]

You guys don't understand what I'm saying. TKD and Muay teach some techniques that are virtually identical. Factor in the countless instructors, all having honed their technique to their particular builds and preferences, and you have such a wide array of variations of techniques that are, in essence, basically the same. Pettis trained in TKD. He says that TKD forms the basis of his standup. Why, then, is it difficult for you to call what he does TKD?

What does Pettis have to do for you to be convinced that he is not using Muay Thai? Throw a side kick? Throw more spinning kicks? Throw front snap kicks? Those are attacks that exist in both Muay Thai and Taekdwondo. They're merely emphasized more in TKD. But shin kicks, knees, elbow strikes--those all exist in both arts as well, just more emphasized in Muay Thai. Pettis uses Taekwondo because Pettis uses Taekwondo. You can't say what all the little superficial differences are that make it not TKD. All you can say is that it doesn't look like the Olympic sport, so it must be Muay Thai. Well, it doesn't really look like Muay Thai, either. It looks like kickboxing, which is a blanket term for--you guessed it--a whole bunch of different martial arts. And Pettis' brand of kickboxing, according to the man himself, is derived from his TKD background.

This is why boxing has a technical leg up on other striking arts, for the most part. No boxing trainer in his right mind would ever get into an argument over what the origin of a useful technique was. He wouldn't look at a certain brand of uppercut and refuse to teach it to his fighter because "that's Cuban boxing, not American boxing." And yet this happens, with endless style vs. style debates, in the TMA and kickfighting community all the time. Striking is striking. The human body has a pretty limited range of techniques of which it is capable. They've figured this out in the Grappling subforum. How silly does it sound to say that a BJJ guy doing a leglock is actually doing Sambo, because Sambo is better known for leglock specialists? The grappling world has, at least among the hardcore students, stopped clamoring for labels. But for some reason the same attitude eludes us over here in the humble Standup Forum.

tl;dr If a man says his kick is a Taekwondo kick, and he trained Taekwondo, why on earth are you telling him he's wrong? And more importantly, why does it matter?

I suppose you have a point there...too much for me to refute because its true. maybe it's just too much pride in my choice of arts...which is ironic because you practice the same art. I'll try to be more open minded...something I need to do in all aspects of life anyways.

 

[Discipulus]

I suppose you have a point there...too much for me to refute because its true. maybe it's just too much pride in my choice of arts...which is ironic because you practice the same art. I'll try to be more open minded...something I need to do in all aspects of life anyways.

Me too, mang. Me too.

 

[peanut66]

i believe pettis comes from ITF tkd back ground , which will look different than WTF (olympic) style tkd anyway.
he kicked cerrone with a shuffle round kick to the body , which is commonly practiced in both types of tkd , the step he used is a little different than the muay thai version of the same kick but the strike to the body was with the shin , which is commonly practiced in muay thai , not so much in tkd.

the tkd influnce i see in pettis' style is his ability to fight from a few feet away , close the distance fast and be capable of performing with either leg , tkd doesnt have to be defined by the type of kick , its is a flowing martial art , the movements are not as rigid and defined as some types of karate ,

cerrone had the reach advantage but not the mobility of pettis and was picked apart from the outside , his lack of defence was the biggest factor of the loss.

tkd is an expression , the same tkd you see today did not look that way in the 70 's or 80's , the attacks and counters vary from country to country and teacher to teacher , pettis has a very flowing dynamic fighting style and can add other styles to his background very easily , for him to tweek his game with some muay thai or good kick boxing is very easily done , the motions he learned in tkd transfer well into any type of kicking game , now mix in some boxing and thats what you get .

pettis works with a former kickboxing champion , so he tweeked his tkd background with some good kickboxing and that is what you see .

honestly , the fight was a minute long , how can anyone determine what style was used , and what difference does it make , that is the style of fighter that is required to compete in mma ,

btw , i picked cerrone to win , i thought he would take pettis down and gnp him,, which is what he should have done , lost a hundred bucks ,, oh well

 

[Bay Area]

You guys don't understand what I'm saying. TKD and Muay teach some techniques that are virtually identical. Factor in the countless instructors, all having honed their technique to their particular builds and preferences, and you have such a wide array of variations of techniques that are, in essence, basically the same.

And im telling you they are two different distinct styles. As different as night and day. And they each have characteristics that you can put a finger on. You can actually see. I went from TKD to MT and I was completely lost. Virtually nothing was the same.. from the strikes to the fighting mind set. Nothing crossed over.

Pettis trained in TKD. He says that TKD forms the basis of his standup. Why, then, is it difficult for you to call what he does TKD?

Dan Hardy's base is Shaolin Kung Fu. Because of this base, is he doing kung fu in there? Pettis can say he does TKD. That's fine. But I didn't see it on Saturday, which is what I was originally talking about in this thread. Everyone screaming TKD! TKD! when Pettis handled Cerrone. But on Saturday it was hard to tell. Sillimar to Vitor screaming Ju Jitsu! Ju Jitusu! when he KOs someone.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

pettis has TKD tendencies, but he clearly mixes things together and uses everything. The closest pure tkd guy in the UFC is Ben Henderson.

No Cung Le and Makdessi are more TKD than Bendo.

 

[Madmick]

Pettis is gonna be champ. This kid is fucking scary good.

 

[Madmick]

No Cung Le and Makdessi are more TKD than Bendo.

Lamas was actually fighting with a pseudo-TKD attack the other night in the standup. You notice that?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Dan Hardy's base is Shaolin Kung Fu. Because of this base, is he doing kung fu in there? Pettis can say he does TKD. That's fine. But I didn't see it on Saturday, which is what I was originally talking about in this thread. Everyone screaming TKD! TKD! when Pettis handled Cerrone. But on Saturday it was hard to tell. Sillimar to Vitor screaming Ju Jitsu! Ju Jitusu! when he KOs someone.

I did. Theres a different way MT and TKD fighters move and Pettis moves like a TKD guy. Roundhouse kicks exist in all martial arts, you cant say that MT 'owns' the roundhouse kick.

I just get annoyed at people who think that any striking is automatically MT or boxing, and any ground fighting is automatically wrestling or BJJ.

 

[Jukai]

Dan Hardy's base is Shaolin Kung Fu. Because of this base, is he doing kung fu in there? Pettis can say he does TKD. That's fine. But I didn't see it on Saturday, which is what I was originally talking about in this thread. Everyone screaming TKD! TKD! when Pettis handled Cerrone. But on Saturday it was hard to tell. Sillimar to Vitor screaming Ju Jitsu! Ju Jitusu! when he KOs someone.

Googling Dan Hardy crediting Shaolin Kung Fu to his MMA has led me to this thread. There is no need to lie to push the point you are having difficulty making. Pettis is a third degree TKD black belt working on his fourth. He teaches kids in his spare time. He says that Taekwondo is the base of his standup. He has twenty times the experience you do. Yet you continue to disagree. I don't quite understand that.

The thing is, Cerrone is credited as having a very pure Thai style. Pettis looks totally different. Why are you claiming that both Pettis and Cerrone can have a style you'd describe as "Muay Thai" that are so different, yet Taekwondo can't have the same range?

Also... I heard Pettis was ATA. Gotta verify that.