International CCP foreign minister fears cold war

[Long Branch]

Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou loses key decision in extradition hearing
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...-attempt-by-meng-wanzhou-to-gain-her-freedom/

A B.C. Supreme Court judge has ended an early attempt by Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. executive Meng Wanzhou to walk free, ruling that a key legal test to extradite has been met and setting the stage for further retaliation against Canada by China.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

None of this is relevant.



The US can do what it wants. Doesn't make it right. The problem is that soon China will be the one doing the doing.

The fact that planning to harm those whom harm befalls is not a necessary condition for the party responsible for the harm to be morally culpable and deserving of punishment is perfectly relevant.

Why isn't the US divorcing a country that steals personal information on federal government employment applicants, intellectual property, and Social Security numbers, names, and dates of birth on more than a third of the US population "right", and greases the wheels for a virus to cripple the US "right"?

 

[Long Branch]

China can’t afford to retaliate against Canada for Meng Wanzhou decision
https://globalnews.ca/news/6995380/meng-wanzhou-court-decision-china-retaliation/

But despite the bitter political divide between the two countries, experts say China’s retaliatory actions over the court ruling will likely not go much further than those statements — mainly because the coronavirus pandemic has already put China on the defensive.

 

[Sauron]

The fact that planning to harm those whom harm befalls is not a necessary condition for the party responsible for the harm to be morally culpable and deserving of punishment is perfectly relevant.

We are dealing in the domain of international relations. Not some small time criminal court in the US.

Do we apply your same reasoning to the American financial crisis of 2008? Should the US be held culpable for destroying the world economy for that debacle - which could be argued was more more deliberate than the botching of covid-19.

Why isn't the US divorcing a country that steals personal information on federal government employment applicants, intellectual property, and Social Security numbers, names, and dates of birth on more than a third of the US population "right", and greases the wheels for a virus to cripple the US "right"?

This just sounds like a list of grievances. It's not even that compelling.

The US wants to decouple from China because it sees it as a strategic threat to its own pre-eminent position in the world. It may be 'right' from a national security POV, but who knows how these things work. They are fluid by their very design. Something that the US does today can change what China does tomorrow. Any action creates an equal and opposite reaction. If the US insists on restricting dollar or economic access then alternatives to those systems will be built. That will undermine the US in a way that will greatly affect US national security.

The US isn't competing against a communist country. It's competing with a scaled up version of Singapore: a one-party capitalist country.

 

[Sauron]

China can’t afford to retaliate against Canada for Meng Wanzhou decision
https://globalnews.ca/news/6995380/meng-wanzhou-court-decision-china-retaliation/

But despite the bitter political divide between the two countries, experts say China’s retaliatory actions over the court ruling will likely not go much further than those statements — mainly because the coronavirus pandemic has already put China on the defensive.

Very true.

China has to carefully manage its image and actions in this corona environment as they are vulnerable.

However, they could stick it to the US by undermining US sanctions on Iran, or dropping bad news prior to the November election i.e. add Qualcomm and Boeing to an unreliable entity list. Trump is also very vulnerable.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

We are dealing in the domain of international relations. Not some small time criminal court in the US.

Do we apply your same reasoning to the American financial crisis of 2008? Should the US be held culpable for destroying the world economy for that debacle - which could be argued was more more deliberate than the botching of covid-19.



This just sounds like a list of grievances. It's not even that compelling.

The US wants to decouple from China because it sees it as a strategic threat to its own pre-eminent position in the world. It may be 'right' from a national security POV, but who knows how these things work. They are fluid by their very design. Something that the US does today can change what China does tomorrow. Any action creates an equal and opposite reaction. If the US insists on restricting dollar or economic access then alternatives to those systems will be built. That will undermine the US in a way that will greatly affect US national security.

The US isn't competing against a communist country. It's competing with a scaled up version of Singapore: a one-party capitalist country.

The value of human lives does not fluctuate based on who harms a person. Whether the harm was done by foreign adversaries or domestic criminals is totally irrelevant to the fact that planning the harm that befalls victims is not a necessary condition for culpability and deserving punishment.

What country are you from? If you think the GFC is the moral equivalent to Chinese barbarism creating a biohazard, then China muzzling people from talking about it while letting people spread the Chinese virus to your country, and therefore your country should cut ties with the US, go ahead, make your case. Don't let the door hit your country on the way out.

You say "list of grievances" as if it's irrelevant to whether or not people should be punished. That's absurd. Grievances are the grounds for which punishment is justified and executed. Without grievances, people cannot be punished.

What undermines US national security is enriching a country through trade, which then uses the money it's made and technology it's stolen from the US to steal information on American applicants for employment with the US federal government and stealing personal info on Americans from a financial institution creating a nightmare for more than a third of all Americans.

The US doesn't need any "excuse" to do what's in the interest of Americans. How audacious for you to claim such absurd nonsense.

 

[D3THRONED]

The value of human lives does not fluctuate based on who harms a person. Whether the harm was done by foreign adversaries or domestic criminals is totally irrelevant to the fact that planning the harm that befalls victims is not a necessary condition for culpability and deserving punishment.

What country are you from? If you think the GFC is the moral equivalent to Chinese barbarism creating a biohazard, then China muzzling people from talking about it while letting people spread the Chinese virus to your country, and therefore your country should cut ties with the US, go ahead, make your case. Don't let the door hit your country on the way out.

You say "list of grievances" as if it's irrelevant to whether or not people should be punished. That's absurd. Grievances are the grounds for which punishment is justified and executed. Without grievances, people cannot be punished.

What undermines US national security is enriching a country through trade, which then uses the money it's made and technology it's stolen from the US to steal information on American applicants for employment with the US federal government and stealing personal info on Americans from a financial institution creating a nightmare for more than a third of all Americans.

The US doesn't need any "excuse" to do what's in the interest of Americans. How audacious for you to claim such absurd nonsense.

Check the users post history. Literally every post is defending the CCP. See for yourself.

 

[Long Branch]

China has to carefully manage its image and actions in this corona environment as they are vulnerable.

Do you want them to succeed?

 

[milenss]

China ruined USA from the inside.
All Chinese people are like biological weapon China uses against the US.
They are in the universities stealing technologies and bringing them to China.
Then selling products at quadruple price.

 

[Long Branch]

'Pathetic clown': Chinese state-backed media attacks Canada after Meng Wanzhou ruling
https://nationalpost.com/news/world...dia-attacks-canada-after-meng-wanzhou-verdict

the decision will “make Canada a pathetic clown

LOL the LPC and their voters most certainly are.

All I can say is....

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Wtf? When that happened?

Lol classic. Public in general don’t give a shit about China/American. It’s only a matter of time before we forget or dismiss this pandemic. “Oh, that? That was so 2 years ago.”

 

[Sauron]

The value of human lives does not fluctuate based on who harms a person....

We are not arguing about the value of human life.

You really don't understand international relations and how they work. Your law studies aren't relevant.

The US doesn't need any "excuse" to do what's in the interest of Americans. How audacious for you to claim such absurd nonsense.

If your interests are hurting US business, accelerating Chinese technological development, stripping US products out of global supply chains and souring a population that's driving global growth then go right ahead. Personally i think it's bad for the world. Economic decoupling creates real danger. Great power competition is very dangerous. Thucydides trap could be very real.

What i see hear is that people getting excited about the prospect of cajoling and sanctioning the entire world to give up their relations with China. Apparently you also believe that China will be a passive bystander in this effort.

 

[Sauron]

Do you want them to succeed?

I think they will succeed so I try and deal with that.

I've found America's recent weaponisation of its economy and financial system extremely disturbing. For that reason I welcome an alternative. Europe is too weak to stand up the US on important strategic matters. However, China may be able to [over the medium to long term].

Now i'm a huge fan of the US but you guys are just abusing your power. Maybe it's not an issue for you as you reap the benefits, but for others it doesn't go down well. Because you don't see that you can't grasp why others may not see American power the way you do.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

We are not arguing about the value of human life.

You really don't understand international relations and how they work. Your law studies aren't relevant.



If your interests are hurting US business, accelerating Chinese technological development, stripping US products out of global supply chains and souring a population that's driving global growth then go right ahead. Personally i think it's bad for the world. Economic decoupling creates real danger. Great power competition is very dangerous. Thucydides trap could be very real.

What i see hear is that people getting excited about the prospect of cajoling and sanctioning the entire world to give up their relations with China. Apparently you also believe that China will be a passive bystander in this effort.

lol at 'I don't understsnd international relations'. It doesn't take a chair at some neoliberal circle jerk to know that governments ought to craft international relations in the interest of the country they're paid to represent.

You tried to undermine the need to bring China to justice first by falsely claiming China isn't culpable. Then when I explained to you how China is culpable you've moved the goal post to claim there's a normative difference between harm by domestic and foreign actors that precludes the need to bring the latter to justice. But that's totally arbitrary. Since the value of human life doesn't fluctuate based on the nationality of the bad actors, the fact that the people responsible for over 100,000 Americans' deaths are Chinese is immaterial to whether or not these bad actors ought to be punished.

We'll get by without those nihilists. In both the 10 and 15 year periods before China joined the WTO, American median income gains were far greater than in the 10 and 15 year periods after China joined. If it weren't for Western innovation Chinese financiers would be in fields harvesting rice.

 

[Sauron]

lol at 'I don't understsnd international relations'...

Your mixing up legal and moral concepts without being able to apply them to the facts. You're jumping from involuntary manslaughter to American exceptionalism to morals. Your argument is all over the place. And i'm not even bothering to drill further into the flaws of your legal, moral and interest based reasoning.

Terrible chinese animal standards > random genetic mutation > highly contagious disease > culpable
Poor American financial regulation > deliberate packing and concealment of junk assets > 2008 > not culpable

It's just sounds like your decision making process is China bad and America good.

If it weren't for Western innovation Chinese financiers would be in fields harvesting rice.

It's not really relevant, but yes, western innovation has been incredible.

There was a time when China could say the same about the West. At that time China had everything they needed. They looked inward and regressed while European powers explored the globe. Sounds like any country we know?

 

[Long Branch]

I think they will succeed so I try and deal with that.

I've found America's recent weaponisation of its economy and financial system extremely disturbing. For that reason I welcome an alternative. Europe is too weak to stand up the US on important strategic matters. However, China may be able to [over the medium to long term].

Now i'm a huge fan of the US but you guys are just abusing your power. Maybe it's not an issue for you as you reap the benefits, but for others it doesn't go down well. Because you don't see that you can't grasp why others may not see American power the way you do.

Yeah you're definitely going to bat for the CCP and welcome them as an alternative.

You've done well comrade, but unfortunately we can see through the bullshit.

 

[Sauron]

Yeah you're definitely going to bat for the CCP and welcome them as an alternative.

You've done well comrade, but unfortunately we can see through the bullshit.

I see the bad and the good of a rising China. Of course Americans see China as bad because they know that they'll have to compete in areas where they've had a virtual monopoly on. Ultimately all this is about American insecurity and fear - which is understandable. Every empire experiences it.

 

[Long Branch]

I see the bad and the good of a rising China. Of course Americans see China as bad because they know that they'll have to compete in areas where they've had a virtual monopoly on. Ultimately all this is about American insecurity and fear - which is understandable. Every empire experiences it.

Welding people into their apartments, making anyone they don't like disappear, complete control of the media and the internet, social credit system, re-education camps, millions of slaves....

Comrade, you're posting on the wrong forum. This shit only works in China.

 

[Sauron]

Welding people into their apartments, making anyone they don't like disappear, complete control of the media and the internet, social credit system, re-education camps, millions of slaves....

Comrade, you're posting on the wrong forum. This shit only works in China.

It's funny that you can't even see the irony of your own post.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Your mixing up legal and moral concepts without being able to apply them to the facts. You're jumping from involuntary manslaughter to American exceptionalism to morals. Your argument is all over the place. And i'm not even bothering to drill further into the flaws of your legal, moral and interest based reasoning.

Terrible chinese animal standards > random genetic mutation > highly contagious disease > culpable
Poor American financial regulation > deliberate packing and concealment of junk assets > 2008 > not culpable

It's just sounds like your decision making process is China bad and America good.



It's not really relevant, but yes, western innovation has been incredible.

There was a time when China could say the same about the West. At that time China had everything they needed. They looked inward and regressed while European powers explored the globe. Sounds like any country we know?

I'm not mixing anything up. You're the one who is mixed up. Laws against involuntary manslaughter are based on the normative judgment that people ought not do things liable to put other people's lives in danger. The normative judgment isn't based on the law. I'm applying the principle consistently, while you're advocating arbitrary application of it, which would render the principle meaningless.

You didn't answer my question: What country are you from? Again, if you think the US is culpable for devestating your country and therefore deserving the punishment of alienation from your country, go ahead, make that case. You won't be missed.