Caught off guard - choked from inside my guard

[BJJ-guy]

So I have a buddy that just joined, and while I do not try to interfer from his learning from superior instructors, I do give him tips on his rolls after class.

One of them was basics of different positions, and what you should be watching out for/doing in each position. One that stood at to him the most was that if he is in someones guard he should be focusing on his posture and breaking the guard, and escaping. Told him he is not in a good position and this is not a position to use offensive moves.

Well in class the other night he watched me get choked out from a guy I had in my guard. I was caught off and didnt protect my neck. I was controlling the sleeves but than he dropped his weight and arms on my neck and continued to push in my trachia. I tapped as it was just painful and felt like my windpipe was caved in. Honestly, it mightve been an effective choke to get me to tap, but seemed more of a 'strike' than a choke' .

My buddy sees this and now is questioning my advice of not going for chokes when in someones guard.

whats your opinions, if you see the neck open do you go for chokes from the guard, as you normally would if you had mount?

--other advice given:

*under someones mount, dont attach or try to benchpress, rather defend the neck, keep elbows in and shrimp.

*if your back is open and about to be taken -- elbows to knees, hands to neck...this blocks underhooks and the neck.

* if you're in someones sidecontrol....arm between you and opponents neck....shrimp back to full guard.

-----feel free to add -- had a few mins at work and a simple post turned into a ramble on several things.

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

Don't give advice at your level of understanding, only very minimal if you have to.

About choke attacks when in someones guard? Don't do it, because you will get

a) double- armbarred

b) armbarred

c) swept or

d) b + c at the same time

unless the guard guy is as much a newbie as you.

B

 

[Bartatua]

Well obviously what happened to you is the exception, not the rule. He should be able to understand that as he goes along in his training. There's an exception to every rule - he just happened to witness it once. I don't think I've ever seen someone choked in such a way, and he probably won't see it again either.

 

[green_machine]

Like someone said, that's the exception to the rule. For him to extend his arms like that is just asking for somebody to armbar him, sweep or whatever. I find alot of new guys trying to do this also...if I sit there and let them get a choke in, of course after they have their grips and are squeezing it's going to choke or hurt. Just don't sit and let them get that grip, be moving, be looking for attacks, knock their arms down, drag their arms, etc.

 

[Balto]

Sometimes you get tapped with a choke from inside of your guard. It happens. I've seen it happen to other people, and it has happened to me a few times. It's definitely not the highest percentage move, but it can work given the right circumstance (as you saw for yourself).

I think the key when giving advice is to remember that no rule applies 100% of the time. So instead of saying "Never attempt to choke the opponent from his guard," I would say instead "Be very careful about extending your arms to choke him in his guard. A lot of times it could make you vulnerable."

The second one is really the more accurate statement. Most of the time, choking in the guard isn't the right idea. But sometimes it can be under certain circumstances. I know some good guys who will do the bread cutter choke just to get the guy on the bottom to open his guard. They are already prepared for the attack on the arm and plan to counter it.

So I guess the important thing to remember with BJJ rules is that they can all be broken in certain rare circumstances, even if they do hold true most of the time.

 

[Zankou]

You can definitely get choked from inside your guard. Particularly by the ezekiel.

The main defense is to stretch the guy out, using your legs on his hips, then start attacking him back.

 

[Sax MMA]

I guess you can still give him tips but the only way to learn is by rolling and studying BJJ

 

[Art Vandelay]

The potential for giving up the back is high without immediate counter defense, but the brabo is 100% possible to hit from inside another's guard.

Especially off baited/failed upa or kimura.

 

[Calogero831]

dont tap bc something hurts. i only tap if i know they have it sunk in. i was triangled yesterday and fought my way out for like 3 minutes, longest 3 minutes ever. i slowed my breathing and jsut kept going from postured to stacking him. he had it tight just didnt dross my arm and push my head down. untill he did cross my arm but then i postured. my point is i eventually got out of it, i didnt just give up. althought the thought did run through my mind that it might be tighter then i thought and i was gonna be "that guy" who passed out during training

 

[armbarking]

You definitely can choke people out inside there guard. But, only if they aren't very good. No offense. i used to use a gi choke all the time inside peoples guards, but the guys I was training with weren't good enough to armbar me so I could afford to do it. However, what is the point of doing something that only works on people that suck? Your advice is good. Best thing that can happen is your buddy tries it and gets armbarred over and over until he believes you.

 

[Zankou]

You definitely can choke people out inside there guard. But, only if they aren't very good. No offense. i used to use a gi choke all the time inside peoples guards, but the guys I was training with weren't good enough to armbar me so I could afford to do it. However, what is the point of doing something that only works on people that suck? Your advice is good. Best thing that can happen is your buddy tries it and gets armbarred over and over until he believes you.

Only exception is the ezekiel. You can ezekiel guys from nearly every position. And the guy can't spin to armbar you when you put the ezekiel on him.

Most advanced guys will never put their arms that far forward, because it's too risky. But if you end up there, the ezekiel is a dangerous option that many won't see coming.

I will occasionally ezekiel blue belts from their guard, just to surprise them.

 

[Gary Peters]

Someone trying to apply a choke from inside the guard is asking to be swept. Chokes from in the guard are only going to work on people new to bjj.

 

[armbarking]

Only exception is the ezekiel. You can ezekiel guys from nearly every position. And the guy can't spin to armbar you when you put the ezekiel on him.

Most advanced guys will never put their arms that far forward, because it's too risky. But if you end up there, the ezekiel is a dangerous option that many won't see coming.

I will occasionally ezekiel blue belts from their guard, just to surprise them.

I know you can ezekiel from half guard (top), but I never tried it from full guard. Part of an Ezekiel is straightening your arms out for the tap, so I would think you would definitely be susceptible to armbars. However, I 'll trust your word and give that ago tomorrow. Hope it works otherwise my instructor may give me an "I told you so!" :icon_chee

 

[Kuark]

Best defense against attempted gi choke from inside your guard or just crushing the neck is this.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rVtZhxROpIY&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rVtZhxROpIY&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
The main thing they dont emphasize is that you cant just push the guys arm off your neck. You have to really bump with your legs and hips as you shove his elbow otherwise it really wont do anything. (also in alot of comps crushing someones neck with your forearm is illegal)

 

[green_machine]

Best defense against attempted gi choke from inside your guard or just crushing the neck is this.

Wow, that text in the video is annoying

 

[Commissar]

dont tap bc something hurts. i only tap if i know they have it sunk in. i was triangled yesterday and fought my way out for like 3 minutes, longest 3 minutes ever. i slowed my breathing and jsut kept going from postured to stacking him. he had it tight just didnt dross my arm and push my head down. untill he did cross my arm but then i postured. my point is i eventually got out of it, i didnt just give up. althought the thought did run through my mind that it might be tighter then i thought and i was gonna be "that guy" who passed out during training

Wrong.

If you feel your trachea hurt, tap. All submission holds (except blood chokes) focus on pain.

While it's great and recommendable to give no quarter, and to fight to the bitter end, if something hurts, tap. I don't mean something's uncomfortable, like your nose, but I mean something like your throat, or your elbow.

 

[Zankou]

dont tap bc something hurts. i only tap if i know they have it sunk in. i was triangled yesterday and fought my way out for like 3 minutes, longest 3 minutes ever. i slowed my breathing and jsut kept going from postured to stacking him. he had it tight just didnt dross my arm and push my head down. untill he did cross my arm but then i postured. my point is i eventually got out of it, i didnt just give up. althought the thought did run through my mind that it might be tighter then i thought and i was gonna be "that guy" who passed out during training

I disagree -- tap because it hurts.

BJJ isn't about fighting off taps despite pain, it's about never putting yourself in position where you have to fight off taps. If you fuck up and make a mistake, then just tap, mentally commit to avoiding that situation, and move on. The fact that you have to defend the sub at all is what should be causing you anguish, not whether you tap to it.

If somebody gets my arm extended, I tap. Right then. There's no excuse for getting your arm extended, and just because you could possibly spazz your way out of it doesn't change that failure. Good defense would help you avoid it.

 

[Kuark]

Wow, that text in the video is annoying

yea but it was exactly what I was looking for

 

[hayliks]

There are very few absolutes in bjj, and it's better to not try and teach others as a white belt. You get taught things as absolutes, then you try and teach them as absolutes, then you train for like 5 years and see that so many of these "absolutes" do not always hold true. Very few of them are 100% absolutes.

goddamn white belts are dumb.

 

[Zankou]

I know you can ezekiel from half guard (top), but I never tried it from full guard. Part of an Ezekiel is straightening your arms out for the tap, so I would think you would definitely be susceptible to armbars. However, I 'll trust your word and give that ago tomorrow. Hope it works otherwise my instructor may give me an "I told you so!" :icon_chee

Try this instructional out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UyFdVCv2Cd0

You don't need to straighten your arms really. Not if you set it up right. And the guy's head is pinned in place by your crossface, so the armbar is not really coming.

I don't like this choke against advanced opponents because if they block, then they will take an underhook and start putting you in trouble. There's no graceful exit. But it's a good option to keep in mind if you get stuck with broken posture.