Catholic Church Commits to the Abolition of the Death Penalty

[InternetHero]

Pretty much my view. It's rather impossible to come up with a gospel centered defense of the death penalty without some 5 star mental gymnastics

Old testament hell yeah, line em up and break out the ropes, but Christ fulfilled the Law and persisting in the letter by letter following and enforcing of it (when it suits our needs) makes us pharisees

I would take up that theological argument, although, I am against the death penalty.

Civil law and religious law in Christianity are by design a separate matter, while a society that is culturally Christian would probably come towards the concept that death is more vengeance than justice. What was valued was the human life, and if you were sending someone "back" to God, much prayer and supplication were expected, from the executioner as well as the prince.

As I see it; why take a chance with life and death?

Anyway, since I'm practically an advocate for National Review at this point, here is a great article on the subject.

The Bishop and the Executioner
By Kevin D. Williamson
August 2, 2018 4:12 PM

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/pope-francis-death-penalty-catholic-teaching-evolves/

 

[Trotsky]

I’m guessing you missed the part where I mentioned they were rapists, not innocents. Minor detail.

JFC, you're dense.

If we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that persons convicted of rape and murder were guilty, the entire problem would be moot. Your premise presumes the absence of the very problem. Instead, we don't know, and furthermore uncover evidence that we've executed thousands of innocent people in our country's history.

 

[InternetHero]

So we're in agreement that murder is wrong, but you want state sanctioned murder?

Aren't you a 'get gubment out of mah life' guy?

I'll take on this. That's not fair at all.

When one has taken a life for the worst reasons, or gang raped someone, or tortured them into a crippling state, the term murder is totally illegitimate in both the letter and the spirit of logic.

 

[tkotom]

So we're in agreement that murder is wrong, but you want state sanctioned murder?

Aren't you a 'get gubment out of mah life' guy?

Are you one of these illiterate retards that doesn’t know the difference between murder and execution. Murder is unlawful. Execution is legal.

There’s no such thing as state sanctioned murder because if its state sanctioned then it is legal and not murder.

If you’re a proven violent and dangerous criminal there’s nothing in my moral code that stops me from opting for them to be put down.

Maybe your soy levels are a little high but I personally don’t want my tax dollars going to feed a guy who raped and murdered children for 30 years.

 

[Fawlty]

Pope Francis has ordered a revision of the Catechism to assert “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the human person.” He has committed the Church to working towards the abolition of the death penalty world wide.

http://www.catholicnews.com/service...hism-to-say-death-penalty-is-inadmissible.cfm

The Catholic Church should change its name to The Church of All the Wrong Reasons.

Vengeance is God's, not man's. That should have been enough.

 

[tkotom]

JFC, you're dense.

If we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that persons convicted of rape and murder were guilty, the entire problem would be moot. Your premise presumes the absence of the very problem. Instead, we don't know, and furthermore uncover evidence that we've executed thousands of innocent people in our country's history.

I’ll tel you what. In a perfect world you can opt into paying taxes for feeding murderers and guys who raped their mothers in the microscopic chance that they’re innocent. I’ll opt out. Does that sound fair, Trotsky?

Or do we all have to pay like it’s a communist regime.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Terrible move by the Pope. Pedophiles, rapists and murders should definitely be executed and sent straight to hell.

 

[ShadBo]

I'll take on this. That's not fair at all.

When one has taken a life for the worst reasons, or gang raped someone, or tortured them into a crippling state, the term murder is totally illegitimate in both the letter and the spirit of logic.

So if we make killing another human being lawful we can no longer call it murder, as murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human being. That's the end of your point, I guess? That my language should be more precise? I'll concede that nitpick no problem.

With that pedantry out of the way, can you address my actual point?

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Terrible move by the Pope. Pedophiles, rapists and murders should definitely be executed and sent straight to hell.

As long as they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour they will go straight to Heaven.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

And this is the difference between Christianity and Islam. They aren't even comparable anymore. One is evolving and moderating itself to the times. One will never change.

I'm not a fan of any religion but there are levels to these things.

 

[ShadBo]

As long as they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour they will go straight to Heaven.

This is literally the death knell for anyone who wants to prop up Christian morality as a shining example of moral perfection.

lol at killing someone for crimes only to have them accept Jesus and have all of their sins forgiven thus being granted access to paradise.

 

[Trotsky]

I’ll tel you what. In a perfect world you can opt into paying taxes for feeding murderers and guys who raped their mothers in the microscopic chance that they’re innocent. I’ll opt out. Does that sound fair, Trotsky?

Or do we all have to pay like it’s a communist regime.

Okay, let's agree to that. And, so that it's fair, you guys who choose not to pay don't get due process. Police can kill you on sight, since actually adjudicating your guilt would just be pussy shit that is wayyyyy too costly.

 

[Bald1]

JFC, you're dense.

If we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that persons convicted of rape and murder were guilty, the entire problem would be moot. Your premise presumes the absence of the very problem. Instead, we don't know, and furthermore uncover evidence that we've executed thousands of innocent people in our country's history.

I'm with you here and strongly believe we should err on the side of caution when it comes to the death penalty.

Where we might differ is in cases where there's irrefutable evidence. Terrorist attacks where there are dozens of eye witnesses, video evidence and the like. What's your stance on situations like that?

 

[jonharrison]

As long as they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour they will go straight to Heaven.

Forgive me if I’m incorrect, but that isn’t how I remember Catholic doctrine. A major difference between Catholics and Protestants concerns the sacrament of confession/reconciliation. This means stating your sin, to a priest, at which point he appoints a penance you must adhere to. Protestants, if I remember correctly, only need to make the confession to god for forgiveness, not to a priest. I have heard stories where the penance given by the priest included confessing to the police, and accepting the judicial punishment, as it demonstrates contrition to god. Once again, I could very well be mistaken, but this is how I remember the process working. Catholics don’t have a “get out of jail free card”, even on their death beds, for normal parishioners.

 

[usmctanker242]

all these supposed pro lifers suddenly dont give a fuck about life when the death penalty is brought up

Seriously?? You're comparing an unborn human who has done nothing wrong to a convicted felon of a gross crime against humanity? Absurd bullshit like this is why we can't have reasonable discourse anymore...people go to the fucking extremes for no reason at all.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Seriously?? You're comparing an unborn human who has done nothing wrong to a convicted felon of a gross crime against humanity? Absurd bullshit like this is why we can't have reasonable discourse anymore...people go to the fucking extremes for no reason at all.

life is life

 

[MayhemMonkey]

LOL at comparing murdering innocent babies to executing people who rape and murder innocents.

You’re not smart.

as Ive stated multiple times in this thread..... life is life. You are just a hypocrite

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Actually we believe the death penalty should be reserved for those who have taken a life. It is an entirely separate issue than abortion and there's no discontinuity of thought like you so shamelessly implied.

so you still favour ending life.... maybe you should change the term "pro life" then? because you guys aint that

 

[tkotom]

Okay, let's agree to that. And, so that it's fair, you guys who choose not to pay don't get due process. Police can kill you on sight, since actually adjudicating your guilt would just be pussy shit that is wayyyyy too costly.

I will agree to abandoning my due process after being finally convicted to 60 years in prison if I happen to murder and cannibalise my neighbour. Let’s keep it honest here.

That’s the difference. Don’t obfuscate.

 

[ShadBo]

Forgive me if I’m incorrect, but that isn’t how I remember Catholic doctrine. A major difference between Catholics and Protestants concerns the sacrament of confession/reconciliation. This means stating your sin, to a priest, at which point he appoints a penance you must adhere to. Protestants, if I remember correctly, only need to make the confession to god for forgiveness, not to a priest. I have heard stories where the penance given by the priest included confessing to the police, and accepting the judicial punishment, as it demonstrates contrition to god. Once again, I could very well be mistaken, but this is how I remember the process working. Catholics don’t have a “get out of jail free card”, even on their death beds, for normal parishioners.

So, what you're saying is: As long as the sinner has enough time to confess their sins to a priest and pay the penance, they have a get out of jail free card? Assuming what you remember, and the stories you have heard, are actually true. There is no getting around the fact that Christianity has a get out of jail free card in the core of its theology. The amount of hoops Catholics may or may not have to jump through is irrelevant.

Besides, I am not interested in the distinctions between Catholic and Protestant doctrine, or the difference between them and the doctrines of the Orthodox, Baptist, Lutheran, Evangelical, Seventh Day Adventist, Mennonite, Pentecost, Methodist and on and on and on. They're all equally unsubstantiated interpretations of the shitshow that is the handful of second and (mostly) third century documents Christianity is based on, and the man-made pageantry that evolved in each sect over time. Neither of them has authority over the other.

The punishment for breaking nearly every law that God laid down in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy is death.

The Pope is out of line here.