Carbohydrates, Not Saturated Fat, Are Correlated with Cardiovascular Disease

Lord Coke

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A buddy of mine and last year he convinced me to severely cut down on grains and starches. I have felt my energy levels go up. I really believe that meat is good for you and health problems stem from the carbs. Vegans tell me why I am wrong


http://roguehealthandfitness.com/carbohydrates-not-saturated-fat-correlated-cardiovascular-disease/
We’ve been told for many decades now to avoid saturated fat to lessen our risk of heart and other cardiovascular disease. But as with so many other pieces of mainstream health wisdom, the doctors and scientists got that one wrong, not that there was such great evidence to begin with. Instead, their recommended macronutrient, carbohydrates, not saturated fat, are correlated with cardiovascular disease. It’s time to end the lies.

What the Health
You may have heard of the new documentary film “What the Health”, which blames meat for the epidemic of obesity, diabetes, and heart disease, and advocates veganism for health.

I had to leave the room after watching some of this movie because of the mendacity on display in both the interviewees’ answers and the tone of the film. In any case, seeing some of it and realizing how popular it’s become prompted this article. Most people, not knowing any better, take that stuff at face value because of doctors in the film and because it confirms their biases about meat. (Nina Teicholz wrote a solid takedown of the film’s lack of a base in actual science.)

Saturated fat does not cause heart disease
In a recent article, we saw that red meat, contrary to what you’ve heard for years, is a health food.

The main component of meat that’s been thought to be involved in cardiovascular disease is saturated fat.

Yet, a recent meta-analysis (an analysis of other studies) found, “Saturated fats are not associated with all cause mortality, CVD, CHD, ischemic stroke, or type 2 diabetes…”

The study did find an association of a particular type of fat with all-cause mortality as well as coronary heart disease, and that was trans fat, the type found in hydrogenated vegetable oils used in processed foods.

Another study from a few years ago, one of whose authors was Ronald Krauss, a very big name in this field, concluded, “… there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.”

The doctors in “What the Health” must be aware of these studies; if so, they’re being willfully misleading, and if not, are willfully ignorant.

It beggars the imagination that a food that humans have eaten for millions of years, sometimes to the exclusion of anything else, suddenly causes heart disease and obesity. The consumption of red meat has actually declined since before the obesity epidemic (although poultry consumption has increased), and the consumption of grains has increased. See the following chart (source).



grain-consumption.png




Carbohydrate consumption is linked to cardiovascular disease
If saturated fat isn’t linked to the incidence of cardiovascular disease, the biggest killer in the developed world, what is?

Carbohydrates, especially refined carbohydrates from grains.

A study that was published last year, Food consumption and the actual statistics of cardiovascular diseases: an epidemiological comparison of 42 European countries, found that “The most significant dietary correlate of low CVD risk was high total fat and animal protein consumption.”

Yes, you read that right. The more fat and the more animal protein people ate, on a population basis, the less cardiovascular disease they had.

The study also found that “The major correlate of high CVD risk was the proportion of energy from carbohydrates and alcohol, or from potato and cereal carbohydrates.” [My emphasis.]

The following chart illustrates the correlation between the amount of carbohydrates (and alcohol) in the diet, by country, and the total CVD mortality in women.

carbohydrates-CVD.jpg




The study found that animal fat did indeed raise cholesterol levels, but that “the relationship between raised cholesterol and CVD indicators in the present study is always negative.” The higher the cholesterol, the lower the CVD rates.

The major correlates of high CVD risk were:

  • carbohydrates, especially refined, high-glycemic carbohydrates (potatoes, cereal grains, sugar)
  • distilled liquor
  • sunflower oil
The major correlates of low CVD risk were:

  • fat and protein intake
  • fruits and wine
  • vegetables
As always, correlation does not equal causation. Other important factors relating to CVD deaths that this study found were smoking, BMI, and level of healthcare expenditure.

But these associations appear to exonerate saturated fat from animal sources, such as meat and dairy, from causing heart disease and stroke. And they imply that carbohydrates are a problem.

Conclusion
The above-cited study states, “The obvious fallacy of the ‘saturated fat hypothesis’ can be demonstrated by the example of France – a country with the highest intake of animal fat in the world and the second lowest CVD mortality (after Japan).”

Ergo, saturated fat does not cause cardiovascular disease, despite what the makers of “What the Health” would have you believe. The film is just more deliberate deception from the mainstream.

The authors also state,

Our results do not support the association between CVDs and saturated fat, which is still contained in official dietary guidelines. Instead, they agree with data accumulated from recent studies that link CVD risk with the high glycaemic index/load of carbohydrate-based diets. In the absence of any scientific evidence connecting saturated fat with CVDs, these findings show that current dietary recommendations regarding CVDs should be seriously reconsidered.

Why would carbohydrate consumption be associated with CVD? Likely because they can lead to insulin resistance, which is probably the true cause of heart disease, as well as a major risk factor for cancer.

So eat meat in the knowledge that can improve your health, not decrease it, and cut back on the consumption of refined carbohydrates.

Update: Since this article was written, another, larger study has been published: the PURE (Prospective Urban Rural Epidemiology) Study, which looked at more than 135,000 people in 18 countries. The PURE Study found the same results as seen above:

High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.

Carbohydrates, not saturated fat, are correlated with cardiovascular disease.

PS: For more on how to live a longer life through, among other things, fewer refined carbohydrates, see my book, Stop the Clock.
 
TLDR but I agree, carbs aren’t great in large amounts and vegans are fucking stupid.
 
Great plan to lure out @DerEisbar’s new account. Well played.


Also yes all the evidence points towards refined carbs and trans fats being the real villains in nutrition
 
Great plan to lure out @DerEisbar’s new account. Well played.


Also yes all the evidence points towards refined carbs and trans fats being the real villains in nutrition
He got banned lol? Damn.
 
Great plan to lure out @DerEisbar’s new account. Well played.


Also yes all the evidence points towards refined carbs and trans fats being the real villains in nutrition
Technically it’s both, but if you are ONLY going to pick one cut those
 
Old news breh... But of course, too much meat is also bad. Can't go wrong with mostly vegan and a bit of meat here and there.
 
I went entirely plant based except for one meal per day, where i have 6 oz of red meat. After bloodwork showed depleted hormone levels i added in the red meat for the cholesterol. Without the modest amount of animal protein i felt weak and embarassing to say, it really lowered my libido.

Cut out all grains except for rice once a day, starches, dairy, sugars aside from orange and cranberry juice, and my bloodwork is the best its ever been. I feel really good. Way more energy and an increased sense of well being.
 
Take that vegetarians! F you and the manbun you rode in on. Also, cows were designed to be food for us.

I went entirely plant based except for one meal per day, where i have 6 oz of red meat. After bloodwork showed depleted hormone levels i added in the red meat for the cholesterol. Without the modest amount of animal protein i felt weak and embarassing to say, it really lowered my libido.

Cut out all grains except for rice once a day, starches, dairy, sugars aside from orange and cranberry juice, and my bloodwork is the best its ever been. I feel really good. Way more energy and an increased sense of well being.

So you got back on the man diet???

Somewhat on a sidenote, the older I get the worse I find myself feeling about eating beef and pork, only due to the advanced nervous systems of those animals. Fish are dumb as fuck, chicken barely know what's going on, but a cow and a pig clearly have capacity to experience life on a higher level. Having said that, there are 10 strips of bacon cooking in the oven at this very moment...

LOL yeah the higher level of standing around all day chewing on grass waiting for us to eat them...and pigs are filthy animals that eat and root through shit.
 
I don't think carbs in general are too blame, only carbs that spike your insulin levels too much (most breads, sugar, etc.). I also think that most of the population eats way too much meat in the context of their activity levels. Unless you're actually doing intense exercise, a couple of eggs, a bit of fish and some poultry here and there will do perfectly fine. Then again, it's also obvious that a large part of the population simply eats too many calories.

Somewhat on a sidenote, the older I get the worse I find myself feeling about eating beef and pork, only due to the advanced nervous systems of those animals. Fish are dumb as fuck, chicken barely know what's going on, but a cow and a pig clearly have capacity to experience life on a higher level. Having said that, there are 10 strips of bacon cooking in the oven at this very moment...
 
This has been in health news for a while. There was even an expose on how the sugar industry labored to shift blame from sugar to fats in the 60's.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

It has some controversy associated with the claim, I present to bolster my statement that this has been discussed in greater depth for a few years. When I was planning my wife and I's post baby diet (to reduce cooking and cleaning of dishes...because I'm lazy but I'm not inconsiderate), it was already out there.
 
This has been in health news for a while. There was even an expose on how the sugar industry labored to shift blame from sugar to fats in the 60's.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

It has some controversy associated with the claim, I present to bolster my statement that this has been discussed in greater depth for a few years. When I was planning my wife and I's post baby diet (to reduce cooking and cleaning of dishes...because I'm lazy but I'm not inconsiderate), it was already out there.

Chris Leben is the friend who told me to start eating more meat and less carbs okay. Its not like I was getting advice from a medical doctor so I assumed that the information had started off some where and was slowly trickling down to me from some expert after some attenuation.
 
Chris Leben is the friend who told me to start eating more meat and less carbs okay. Its not like I was getting advice from a medical doctor so I assumed that the information had started off some where and was slowly trickling down to me from some expert after some attenuation.

I'm not criticizing your source, I'm trying to add to the conversation.
 
Great thread. Even if this has been discussed before it needs to get out even more. The food pyramid over the last couple of decades has done wonders for fucking over people's health.
 
You're taking health advice from some 63 year old geezer who runs a "rogue" fitness website that advises you to ignore mainstream consensus and instead buy his books? Dude looks super frail, too. If you're going to peddle fringe science about male health and fitness, you should at least be swole IMO. He has a lot of bro science to learn from Joe Rogan.

Dennis-car-2017-enhanced.jpg
 
Great thread. Even if this has been discussed before it needs to get out even more. The food pyramid over the last couple of decades has done wonders for fucking over people's health.

thanks its like this. It is not hard for me to trade a serving of meat for a serving of carbs. So I have experienced some weight loss and energy gain without any real effort.

Its just something that is counter intuitive so I would have not thought of it on my own.
So if you have Korean BBQ or sushi as your two options after jiu jitsu you would assume that the Korean BBQ which is essentially all meat would be worse for you right? Well the rice and other carbs in sushi actually is doing more damage. Well I feel a lot better after say 6 hours after going to korean bbq than say if I go to the all you can eat sushi place. I know that in of itself is not scientific but neither is how I feel about my energy levels to a large degree.
Now I know I should be eating something sensible after training but Saturday's is always my longest training day since I don't work typically and well I like to eat afterwards. And I used to be more adverse to korean bbq and went to sushi because I assumed it was more healthy. Now I am getting the best of both worlds.

Obviously the main thing is how I shop. I eat a lot more fish at home than anything else. But I used to eat a lot of rice instead of a second piece of salmon and well apparently that was the wrong thing to do and well I prefer that second piece of salmon and some asparagus anyway. Same with my eggs in the morning. I used to fry potatoes because I assumed that two eggs and potatotes or toast was better than four eggs. Well I'd rather have 4 hard boiled eggs and no potatoes and I have been feelling better.
 
You're taking health advice from some 63 year old geezer who runs a "rogue" fitness website that advises you to ignore mainstream consensus and instead buy his books? Dude looks super frail, too. If you're going to peddle fringe science about male health and fitness, you should at least be swole IMO. He has a lot of bro science to learn from Joe Rogan.

Dennis-car-2017-enhanced.jpg

I mean I took the article off my friends page who is a PA at Kaiser and a black belt in jiu jitsu so I figure he has already vetted it.
 
This has been in health news for a while. There was even an expose on how the sugar industry labored to shift blame from sugar to fats in the 60's.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

It has some controversy associated with the claim, I present to bolster my statement that this has been discussed in greater depth for a few years. When I was planning my wife and I's post baby diet (to reduce cooking and cleaning of dishes...because I'm lazy but I'm not inconsiderate), it was already out there.
It's really sad how easily 'science' and 'top scientists' can be bought to formulate any outcome desired. You would think the peer review process would normalize and out this but it does not and sadly we see it happening more and more each year.
 
I mean I took the article off my friends page who is a PA at Kaiser and a black belt in jiu jitsu so I figure he has already vetted it.

PA is a 2 year degree. Their curriculum spends on average about 10 hours total on nutrition. Very basic, bare-bones stuff. Not that doctors get much more on average, but just saying that having a PA degree doesn't make one the authority. In general, I would say ignoring the consensus to go with the fringe view tends to pretty much universally lead to misunderstanding and bad outcomes. This applies to pretty much everything in life.
 
I tend to agree, diet likely doesn't play a big roll in the development of heart disease. I believe saturated fats for most people are fine. (If one has an allergy to a meat or dairy product, that could be different.)

Stress and strain is probably a large cause for heart attacks i believe. Stress can lead to a blood clot causing a heart attack.

There are many potential causes to heart attacks. Some recreational drugs such as cocaine are known to cause some to die of a cardiac event.

NSAIDS, anti inflammatory medications can cause heart attacks.

Over the counter and prescription medications that lower stomach acid levels, proton pump inhibitors, have been found in studies to cause heart attacks. A little on PPI's and heart disease can be read here ~

What causes heart disease part XXI

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2016/09/21/what-causes-heart-disease-part-xxi/
 
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