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Canelo was too young, Pacman was too old, or are u just a hater?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Kvolcom, Nov 24, 2021 at 3:37 PM.

  1. svmVR2097 Brown Belt

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    The consensus is wrong. he was still in his prime, still athletic prime, he just wasn't as good as people though he was. He ducked Holyfield in 91. Ducked Lennox in 96. If he beats either of those 2 in 96/97 no one claims his Prime ended.
     
  2. bjl12 White Belt

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    Always felt Canelo was all wrong for Manny. Young Canelo was almost exclusively a counter-puncher and he went to the body even more then. The fight wouldve never happened as Manny highest weight he fought at was 150 iirc but at 154 I cant see a good outcome for Manny.

    Canelo has never seemed to troubled by speed and his chin is extraordinary
     
  3. bjl12 White Belt

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    Couldn't disagree more. Canelo was ready against Floyd but Mayweather was just too smart, too experienced. The moment did not defeat him, Floyd did.

    Floyd just had Canelo out of his element pretty much all night long and Canelo couldnt find a rhythm. That was part of what made Floyd so good though...did it to all his opponents.
     
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  4. bjl12 White Belt

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    Prime Pac mightve beaten Floyd and this Canelo beats Floyd at 160
     
  5. LangfordBarrow StickAndMove Platinum Member

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    <YeahOKJen>
     
  6. KAZSoliloquy Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    “prime” is not a foolproof formula. the best wins in many fighters’ careers come either before or after their physical prime. a fighters prime performances is typically an amalgamation of high physical ability, great focus & confidence, and preparation. some guys keep that going for a whole career. some only get a couple fights.
     
  7. svmVR2097 Brown Belt

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    There’s nothing that told me physically or mentally he wasn’t where he always was. His armor got cracked once, then he raped a woman. He still fought the same. Was still ending everyone early. It’s just convenient to use the excuse when Holyfield was always better than him , just smaller
     
  8. KAZSoliloquy Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    i don’t think holyfield/tyson goes the same way if it happened in 1990. holyfield was still struggling with some fully filled-out heavyweights. tyson was not. however, things happened the way they happened and we’ll never really know. i do think holyfield has a better resumé than tyson though, tyson just had a more dominant peak. people who value one of those two characteristics more than the other will have differing opinions.
     
  9. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Yeah, its an interesting thing. A win versus a fighter who is well past it can still be considered an impressive win, if that depleted version of the fighter has still shown himself to be a top fighter. I think of Henry Armstrong, who was far past prime when he fought Robinson, but still one of the best fighters on the planet who had recently beaten Hall of Famers like Sammy Angott and Tippy Larkin. The win didn't mean anything as far as settling who was greater between the two at their best, but it was still very impressive, because even diminished, Armstrong was still one of the very best in the world.

    Pacquiao might not have been at his best when Mayweather beat him, but he was still an amazing fighter who would have KO'd almost any other contemporary boxer of his general weight put in front of him on that night. The fight might not be wholly indicative of what a prime vs prime Mayweather-Pacquiao contest would look like, but it was still a meaningful win by Mayweather.
     
  10. svmVR2097 Brown Belt

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    i think Lennox fight goes the same way in 96
     
  11. Goober stoober Orange Belt

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    look, at anything lower than 147, id say he's up there with jcc, pernel and duran.

    at 147 he was very cautious and i think there was guys in his era that he avoided because they were tough fights.

    he doesnt beat srr, srl or hearns at 147 and probably not even odh in his prime.
     
  12. 4daLuLZ Black Belt

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    Both, why ?
     
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  13. LangfordBarrow StickAndMove Platinum Member

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    Neither one is in their prime. {<shrug}
     
  14. 4daLuLZ Black Belt

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    <DisgustingHHH>
     
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  15. Kazuky Blue Belt

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    You can say Floyd was past his prime too. But hey, when you can beat a man inside the ring, you gotta bring him down outside
     
  16. cuban23 Black Belt

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    That too, but Canelo still choked.
     
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  17. BennyST Green Belt

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    Canelo might not have been at his absolute peak but he was certainly in his prime. He was a 23 year old champion of nearly 50 fights and 7 or 8 years as a pro. Any fighter in their early to mid twenties fighting at championship level is in their prime. That’s the very definition of prime. Whether he was at his absolute pinnacle in terms of skill, youth and experience is probably a more relevant question.

    It would be a bit like suggesting Roberto Duran wasn’t in his prime when he lost to De Jesus the first. Only 21, one title fight (Canelo had had lots of title fights already) and still relatively unpolished compared to the Duran that fought him in the 3rd fight for instance. He might not have had all the savvy, experience and polish of a late 70s Duran but he was undoubtedly in his prime. Same with Canelo.

    Against Pac, I think Floyd looked more shopworn than Pac did. He looked significantly slower of both hand and foot than the peak version at 140-147. Pac still looked amazing for years afterward, Floyd looked a bit shit in that fight and much worse each fight after it. I certainly understand the debate about it though, but I think people forget that Floyd was essentially 40 years old and had dropped off a easily as much as Pac had, if not quite a lot more if you compare video of their peak years.
     
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  18. chiefwiggum Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Paquiao was getting stopped before the floyd fight. Many great wins after floyd.

    canellos management called out floyd for a catch weight fight they didn’t have to put out there. So canelo paid for that in the ring.
     
  19. amiller353 White Belt

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    Seriously if it’s that big of an issue the fight shouldn’t happen
     
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  20. BoxingMMA Brown Belt

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    I find it is the Floyd fans who are always in possession of the magical excuse briefcase and pull one out whenever someone attacks him, whether it’s the cherry picking, the bullshit clauses, the robbery vs Castillo, the embarrassment vs a youtuber, etc.

    I think if we’re going to attack the canelo and Pac-Man nutthuggers (and boy are there plenty) then let’s not be chickenshit and do the same thing for the fighter whose penis we can’t stop masticating on.
     

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