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Can someone with in depth 'Gracie' knowledge please help

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Kalma, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. Kalma

    Kalma Orange Belt

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    I've been looking at the different training academies/schools around the world (I'm keen for an overseas trip) and am honestly confused...

    so if anyone with a decent knowledge of how the 'Gracie' puzzle fits together could help I'd be grateful. I am asking with genuine interest and hope to receive factual answers.

    1. Torrance, CA (Headquarters) - Certified Training Centers- Gracie Academy

    When you look at the map that where the schools are offered there isnt one in brazil?
    Anyone know why that is?

    2.Does that mean the above school is different to this school ?
    http://www.academiagracie.com.br/academias.asp

    3. A quote from a Royce Gracie interview "The Jiu-Jitsu my father created wasn
     
  2. DeadAim713

    DeadAim713 Blue Belt

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    1.The Gracie academy is Rorion Gracie's school. They focus A LOT on the more self-defense aspect and sell blue belts online. There's not one in Brazil cause, well cause there ain't one.

    2.Yes

    3.Every school I've seen and trained at has taught some from of self-defense BJJ stuff, so, anywhere really.

    4.Gracie Barra is Carlos Gracie Jr.'s chain of schools. They have produced MANY champions and great instructors.

    Just find a local, reputable BJJ school and try some classes out. You look into shit WAYY too much.
     
  3. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    QFT. Anything short of just going down to the local (reputable) BJJ place is a form of procrastiplanning, similar to "I can't start jogging because all I have is Reeboks, and everyone knows that Nikes are what you use to jog." The best day to start BJJ is ten years ago. The second best day is today. Even if the place you end up going is sport oriented, after a few months of that, you'll still be miles ahead of someone who did a month at Rorion's school, not due to a fault in Rorion's school, but because 3 months of good training will beat 1 month of good training.

    Besides, there are many good BJJ schools out there that focus on self-defense, they just happen to not sell themselves like a carnie barker.
     
  4. Giant Midget

    Giant Midget Blue Belt

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    What the fuck? Are you a philosopher or some shit? Just go find a decent school, tap some dudes out and stop acting like this is some life or death decision.
     
  5. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    Um, read my post again. I told the guy to just find a good local school, rather than travelling to train sporadically.
     
  6. Giant Midget

    Giant Midget Blue Belt

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    Why didn't you just say that? Dude, you know no chicks ever come on Sherdog so you don't have to impress anyone :D.
     
  7. sproggdawg

    sproggdawg Nap Facilitator

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    The Torrance academy takes the self defense aspect to a whole other level than other schools. The entire White to Blue curriculum is known as Gracie Combatives. Its basically just like it sounds, jiu jitsu for fighting, and its really good stuff. That being said, you dont need to travel to Torrance to get that training. If there is a Gracie Academy Certified Training Center near you then you can train there. If not then go to any reputable BJJ school and order the Gracie Combatives DVD's or join Gracie university online to do as a supplement.
     
  8. MMA junkie

    MMA junkie Purple Belt

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    Leave that attitude in heavies.
     
  9. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    Sometimes a longer answer is better than a short one. There's a thread here that got resurrected recently about what makes a purple belt. Anaconda could have said "someone who taps blues easily, even with other purples, and can survive against browns." What good would that do? Instead he made a metaphor to arguing in a foreign language, and it made more sense, gave the new guys something they could relate to, and is something that can be applied to other avenues of life.
     
  10. Fallen

    Fallen Brown Belt

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    He's a giant midget...thats got to be one helluva conflicted napolean complex he's dealing with (explains the unprovoked attitude a bit)
     
  11. Ninjamurf

    Ninjamurf Handing out lollipops for over 3 decades

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    Don't listen to the midget. This quote right here is pure gold.
     
  12. curb1850

    curb1850 Green Belt

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    lol! just go check out some schools and see what ya like.
     
  13. TrumpetDan

    TrumpetDan Green Belt

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    You asked a very loaded question dealing with family squabbles, inter family differences in philosophy and vision of what jiu jitsu is and what it should become. All these schools you ask of are a result of these differences. Issues like the role sportive jiu jitsu should play in ones development, the creation and mission of ibjjf, cross training, the use of ones physical gifts as an advantage, and other things similar to this were among the differences in jiu jitsu. These differences have calmed down quite a bit but at one time were very heated debates among the family members.

    These are very important events in understanding where the pieces of the puzzle landed and are crucial to understanding the history and major players of jiu jitsu. Many people are not aware of this history....for example a recent thread on sherdog that has people mad about Rener/Ryron having too many stripes on their belt per IBJJF guidelines.

    Careful searches of the interweb might shed more light on this for you. Most of the things have been resolved or forgotten over time but plays a role as to why the jiu jitsu landscape is confusing.

    Having trained at a wide variety of schools and able to have some other influences than a single gym, I can tell you that what Torrence (for better or for worse) does is NOT what other schools do. There is a whole different energy, emphasis, philosophy and learning style at the gym. Gracie Barra schools (for better or for worse) teach in the style that most of the people have experienced and grown accustomed to. In my experience, most schools teach a contemporary mix of all styles which includes a self defense portion. Torrance (and some others) do not incorporate this eclectic style. You will get only Helio Gracies vision of jiu jitsu there and in Miami. You will get more of a Carlos vision at Gracie Barra schools, though im sure that the linages, influences and experiences of each individual instructor shape the specific schools philosophies

    If you train at the Torrance academy, you know exactly what I speak of. They will teach you stuff that you can expect strong unskilled/less skilled opponents will do in fights. If you train at a Gracie Barra school you will probably say, "we do self defense too"...its not the same. Im not passing judgment if it is better or worse. It
     
  14. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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  15. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    There's something to be said about standards for stripes. Guys in their 20s with >3 stripes are a bit odd for most. That said, they just indicate time as BB, not necessarily ability. Still, it strikes me personally as an ego stroke or subtle sales pitch.

    Why only train to go against an unskilled opponent? A lot of guys wrestled in high school, or "train ufc" with their friends. By concentrating on bread and butter techniques, you'll be prepared for skilled and unskilled opponents alike.

     
  16. TrumpetDan

    TrumpetDan Green Belt

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    You seem to be taking offence to a position I never took and are thinking I train at the Torrance academy (which I dont, but have briefly). I occasionally visit and Rener and Ryron always give me mat time with them when I go. You also said that I stated that other schools only teach for tournaments, which i did not. You are taking what others have said and projecting it on me. I imagine that you were so worked up at my post that you didnt even read it carefully and were reading things that wernt there because your opinion was already bubbling out of the pot.

    To clarify, my position is actually an eclectic one where I embrace all the styles and learn from each. I need to be prepared for reactions of skilled opponents and unskilled ones alike. Yes, both are complimentary to each other!... but it doesn’t hurt to examine and be prepared for the unskilled street fight reaction. (ie. what if this wasnt a mat underneath me? How much would this hurt to do on a harder surface than a mat? Could he slam me if i dont let go of my guard when he stands up?)

    I roll with new strong white belts all the time and they teach me a lot. They do wrong stuff, but actually believe with all their heart that it will work. Sometimes it DOES work! Slamming their way out of triangles, trying to grab your neck and head at all costs and really putting all they have into it. Its a different reaction than people have been beaten down from these positions repeatedly and learned never to do them.

    There is the misinformed position that the Torrance academy only prepares you for unskilled opponents and thats not the case. They just take care of all of that first as a base, then focus on the other stuff. As many other schools roll after class, they drill the unskilled opponent reaction into your brain. Most other schools will teach maybe 1 self defense move and maybe 2 sportive moves that when slightly motified can work in a self defense situation as well. You asked what they do differently when it comes down to it, but you just didnt like the answer. I am not advocating for their method! But I certainly can learn a thing or 2 from it.

    I once went to a "fight club" with form member Sean Roberts where the guy attempted to headlock/guillotine me from every position with all of his might like it was going to work (obviously unskilled). It hurt and was difficult to get out of. I used the stuff I learned at the gracie academy there because it had prepared me for such situations. Sean also put one guy in a triangle and sean was slammed (but still finished)

    Another story... last night I taught a grappling class at a TKD gym as a guest instructor. They had a weekly no gi grappling class and had been following my videos online and invited me in. I rolled with one of the athletic guys and put him in a triangle from mount and rolled to my back to finish. He picked me up and slammed me on thin TKD mats and I was reminded of an earlier lesson I had received at the gracie academy. I knew the lesson, but built some other stuff into muscle memory. "gentle" reminders like this remind me of some little things that can be different that non skilled people do.

    As far as standards, Helio does not respect the IBJJF standards but that does not mean that there are not standards. Helio included standards in his black belt strips other than just time. It included understanding of jiu jitsu as a social tool, teaching abilities ect. Its important to have standards to lay down for future generations of practitioners, but I think the founders have earned enough respect to do as they see fit for promotion. If one of the co founders of the art put a stripe on your belt, are you saying you would take it off because it didnt live up to standards? I wouldn’t.
     
  17. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    While I don't think I was worked up, it's quite possible I'm projecting others' opinions onto you, for that I apologize.

     
  18. Giant Midget

    Giant Midget Blue Belt

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    :icon_lol::icon_lol:.
     
  19. Kalma

    Kalma Orange Belt

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    cool, thanks for the info.

    Prior to reading this info I thought the self defence may be taught like a BJJ version of a Geoff Thompson class.

    But this proves my thiughts wrong .."Those huge looping punches were a joke, and as many people will attest, they don't always come nice and telegraphed like that."

    again thanks for the answers , it clarified heaps for me.
     
  20. Supereem

    Supereem Black Belt

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    Just in case my opinion means anything to you, I would choose a Gracie Barra blue belt over a Gracie Academy one in a grappling street fight, on average. If you are worried about self defence, you can learn add MMA grappling into the mix like ALOT of sports BJJ guys do and you will be almost invincable in a one on one confrontation.

    (in before BJJ doesnt work in street fights ect.)
     

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