Can Someone Please Give Me the Good News About Trump's Tariffs?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Leonard Haid, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Leonard Haid

    Leonard Haid Minimalist Living the Illusory Dream

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  2. Darth_Inv1ctu5

    Darth_Inv1ctu5 I will shit on everything you love

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    Good news is we're really showing the Chinese who da boss.

    Them.
    <BirdieOwn>
     
  3. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Yellow Card

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    Tariffs are bad.

    Especially new tariffs. There will always be blood when you impose new tariffs short term.
     
    Strychnine likes this.
  4. Job Interview

    Job Interview Sticking in thumbs, pulling out plums

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    I'm curious as to what the likelihoods are that they'll be effective itlr
     
  5. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    I wish I knew more about this, but China is successfully pushing for global presence while we are dicking around in the ME.

    If these tariffs work to curb Chinese expansion, I am for them

    Should do something about that big antennae they've erected in Argentina too.

    The US has really been sleeping on this
     
  6. Edison Carasio

    Edison Carasio Excellence of execution belt Platinum Member

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    The good news is we have to spend billions propping up soy and corn farmers, the American whiskey industry and Harley Davidson are getting btfo, and the libs are rustled. #maga
     
  7. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Yellow Card

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    The tariffs do nothing but impact American workers.

    All this does is force the Chinese to invest more in other markets.

    Other countries aren't imposing tariffs on China so this not only strengthens but downright encourages China to seek other markets instead of our own and further increase their influence globally.
     
  8. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    So what is the purpose?

    I'm buried under parenthood I can't keep up with this stuff like I used to
     
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  9. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Yellow Card

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    You'd have to ask Trump.

    I'm sure his followers will tell you it's some 4D chess bullshit about forcing them to give us a "new deal".

    In reality it's probably a combination of short sighted wishful thinking and America first style bigotry.
     
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  10. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    Well, the atrocious blunders we have made over the past couple of decades is certain precedent for your conclusion.

    To be sure, the Chinese are playing a similar "nation" first game and I think it's fair to say there is plenty of, what we call, bigotry, going on with their side as well.

    Monkeys with bombs, all of us.

    I just want to feed my kid.

    This stupid world.
     
  11. JonnyRingo84

    JonnyRingo84 Gold Belt

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    the tariffs play really well with trump's base. so....mission accomplished.
     
  12. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Yellow Card

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    I'm not saying that China isn't one of the most nationalistic and xenophobic of the current major powers.

    We're just supposed to be better than that, imo.
     
  13. Not A Theist

    Not A Theist Purple Belt

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    I've been curious about this as a maxim. Is this universally true? I've been curious because, as a non-American, I've seen my country imposing tariffs on foreign goods across a variety of industries since I was a child. I've seen countries all around the Western world doing the same. Are tariffs just plain bad - no upsides, no appropriate use scenarios? And as such, has the use of tariffs throughout my lifetime simply been a mistake that is repeated, across the Western world, ad nauseam? If so, could some economically savvy individuals ( @Jack V Savage , @Greoric spring to mind) explain the statement "Tariffs are bad" - its degree of truth, why it is violated, etc?

    As a bonus question, if you have the inclination and the time, why are Trump's tariffs bad, regardless of your answer to the more general questions in the previous paragraph?

    Thanks in advance. I'll be curious to learn a bit on the subject.
     
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  14. MeatheadMike

    MeatheadMike Brown Belt

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    The short answer is tariffs hinder the free market from operating properly as prices are no longer being set freely by the forces of supply and demand.
     
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  15. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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  16. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Because they work.
     
  17. Not A Theist

    Not A Theist Purple Belt

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    This is the part of it that I understand. Conversely, I understand the reasoning behind certain types of protectionism - say, not losing industries vital to a country's survival, or for a state with a less intrusive government trying to protect industries from competitor nation, where that industry is heavily subsidized, essentially trying to level the playing field.

    I'm just looking for a more nuanced understanding of the practice. I understand that, all things being equal, a tariff really is just a monkey wrench in a free market, which tends to generate the maximum wealth/productivity when left unhindered. This gets messed up when national interests and different government practices relative to industry become involved. I've seen claims, like Rational Poster's, that tariffs are just plain bad though, sometimes from people who I realize understand economics far better than I do. So yeah, I'm looking for a bit more of the story - is it a "they're just plain bad, all in, and there is no way around that" or a "Sometimes they are beneficial, but they're generally bad"? And what's the reason for the answer, beyond what my current understanding can explain?
     
  18. snakedafunky

    snakedafunky Red Belt

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    Well, tariffs on China could be a good thing if done correctly.
    Because there are a lot of shady things China does in terms of trade.

    I just don't see how starting a trade war and giving huge tax cuts at the same time is a good strategy.
    And also picking fights with everyone else.
    The problem is that Donald still thinks he is doing business with NY property developers were you either win or lose.
    Global trade is not a win or lose situation. The guy is a complete moron.
     
  19. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Yellow Card

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    Tariffs are the anti-thesis of free trade principals we've built our country on.

    Simply put tariffs increase costs for consumers because the buyers and sellers aren't going to just eat the increased costs imposed at customs.

    It makes more sense if you have a smaller country with less external interests to protect local jobs from foreign investment.

    It makes little sense for a consumer economy at the scale of the US trying to setup shop virtually everywhere. Small percentage increase in costs impact thousands of jobs.
     
  20. Not A Theist

    Not A Theist Purple Belt

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    Ok, thanks for the response.

    Your first line - is this statement, putting tariffs against a backdrop of free market principles, a suggestion that Free Market principles as you outline are universally correct, therefore "Tariffs are bad"?

    Second line, is the cost to consumers the only factor one should consider when making decisions on imposing tariffs? This leads to the follow up - are there factors which might lead a country to reasonably and correctly say "We should put a tariff on ____ produced in ____"?

    In your third line ("It makes more sense if you have...") is there a suggestion that tariffs can be good in a smaller country with certain characteristics, or are you saying that they can be simply less bad in a smaller country?

    The fourth line doesn't beg many questions. Is your suggestion simply that "Tariffs are bad" - period - for an economy like America, but might be good elsewhere? If so, are there any circumstances at all that you could justify America putting up a tariff on something and have you think it was a good idea?
     

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