Can someone please explain Jon Jones' PED history/infractions?

[Pacemaker Joe]

I thought first time he popped was because of tainted supplements and dick pills and then the other time was when picograms were found.

Can someone explain why he is vehemently treated like a drug cheat, honestly just curious? Am I missing something?

Because his dick pills excuse is, at best, incredibly stupid.

When they first asked for a receipt for where and when he bought it, he provided a receipt from after the day he was tested. When he provided the real receipt, it also listed clomiphene. The pills he provided said "NOT INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION/USE. WARNING: If product is ingested accidently contact Poison Control." on the package. This was apparently supposed to be cialis, which plenty of doctors will prescribe with no problem. Instead, knowing he rad being drug tested often, his excuse is that he took random pills that literally told him not to eat them, lied about when and where he got them, and lied about what else was purchased at the time... a substance he also failed for. There's a reason USADA didn't find his excuse believable. Even if they had, there's precedent (Asfaw) for still giving him the maximum penalty for being an idiot when he should have known better. Jones got the maximum penalty the first time around for a reason.

When he went in front of CSAC for the turinabol positive, he talked about how he was being really careful now, and then under questioning from Shen-Urquidez, revealed that he'd done almost nothing that could be possibly described as careful. He also couldn't provide any supplement that was contained with turinabol, despite providing about twice many as he listed on his pre fight disclosure form. So still, nobody knows how, when, or how much turinabol he took.

 

[TheJohnnyWalkerEra]

The limp dick excuse doesn't work when you're a high test young man

If he had that problem at his age, it would have been a life long thing and he would have popped earlier for it

Doesn't he have a bunch of kids anyways?

 

[Rvd Slmr]

Still not a concrete answer, the two infractions were explained by dick pills and tainted supplements. I'm looking for an answer to why he is labeled a drug cheat despite these reasons

That's just a lie, they never found the source of the turinabol. Which is why USADA gave him a four year suspension, only reduced because he gave some informations and not because he proved it was a tainted supplement (because he didn't).

 

[Crom Cruach]

His training partner is a busted steroid user his brother is a busted steroid user but Jon's two steroid busts are just accidents that could happen to anyone. LOL.

He got the maximum sentence for both of his offenses but the second one was reduced twice. Once for "substantial assistance" (whatever that was) the other after a legal challenge went to arbitration.

USADA gave him a pass on a Third offence in questionable circumstances (pulsing).

Jon's supporters like to add the arbitrators reduction to the pulsing pass and make that equal Jon is a clean athlete that has never been using PEDs.

Again...LOL.

 

[randomg1t]

Fair enough, i'm going to copy and paste another post of mine here in a few seconds, which should clear up what i mean by that!

yeah... i heavily disagree.

having more routes to victory does not mean athleticism plays a lesser part. all the boxing skill in the world is useless if you aren't quick enough. landing punches that your opponent doesn't respect due to a lack of power on them isn't going to keep them off of you. you're not going to take down a beast like romero unless you're powerful as fuck, and if you do, you're not going to keep him down.

there have been many incredible technicians in MMA who have failed miserably due to a lack of athleticism. we've had fighters who would win high profile fights with nothing but the most rudimentary skills and insane cardio. in fact, when evaluating the level of skill in each art separately, most high level MMA fighters aren't really good. jones can't wrestle with elite wrestlers, he gets killed by elite kickboxers, he gets his limbs broken by elite jiu jitsu fighters. yet he's doing great in MMA because he's athletic and roided to the gills. so my stance is the exact opposite: athleticism plays an equal if not more important part in MMA than other sports.

 

[Iron Nick]

yeah... i heavily disagree.

having more routes to victory does not mean athleticism plays a lesser part. all the boxing skill in the world is useless if you aren't quick enough. landing punches that your opponent doesn't respect due to a lack of power on them isn't going to keep them off of you. you're not going to take down a beast like romero unless you're powerful as fuck, and if you do, you're not going to keep him down.

there have been many incredible technicians in MMA who have failed miserably due to a lack of athleticism. we've had fighters who would win high profile fights with nothing but the most rudimentary skills and insane cardio. in fact, when evaluating the level of skill in each art separately, most high level MMA fighters aren't really good. jones can't wrestle with elite wrestlers, he gets killed by elite kickboxers, he gets his limbs broken by elite jiu jitsu fighters. yet he's doing great in MMA because he's athletic and roided to the gills. so my stance is the exact opposite: athleticism plays an equal if not more important part in MMA than other sports.

If athleticism was so important in combat sports like boxing and MMA like it is in soccer etc., then there wouldn't be world-class athletes in that sport who surpass the ages of 36+.

As for Jon Jones: his cardio is great and he is a really strong guy, but not a freak athlete.
His striking is so effective because a) he has a humongous reach and knows how to use it and b) because the threat of a takedown makes your opponents hesitant and easier to hit. See also: Khabib vs. Al Iaquinta amongst others.
I do actually agree with you though that if we're talking stand-up purely (and that includes no takedowns/grappling), than Reyes, Oezdemir, Rakic, Gustafsson amongst others are better than him.

I also agree that PEDs can make a difference, but MMA still requires less athleticism than soccer etc.
Put the most athletic and fast fighters in the UFC against the most athletic players in soccer in disciplines like: sprints, cooper-test, 3k, 5k, 10k, agility tests and strength tests and you'd see the soccer guys smoke the MMA fighters in every aspect except strength, although there are some very muscular and strong soccer guys as well.

 

[kflo]

Everyone knows you will defend Jones's innocence until your dying day @kflo. Nothing to discuss with you.

To answer your question though, Mir is brought up AND the context is given in the thread. He was Jones training partner and pissed hot for the same thing Jones did.
Tag someone else. I think your love of Jones is annoying.

innocence of what? i never claimed jones never used.

he pissed hot for the same thing and?

either you want to discuss the facts or you don't. if you want a circle jerk do it somewhere else.

 

[Paynebringer]

I thought first time he popped was because of tainted supplements and dick pills and then the other time was when picograms were found.

Can someone explain why he is vehemently treated like a drug cheat, honestly just curious? Am I missing something?

You got it right buddy but haters somehow have turned those two known and documented fails into lifelong use of all manner of peds from birth...

 

[vgff]

I thought first time he popped was because of tainted supplements and dick pills and then the other time was when picograms were found.

Can someone explain why he is vehemently treated like a drug cheat, honestly just curious? Am I missing something?

because most people, especially mma fans, are high school dropouts and stupid af

 

[surrealworlds]

innocence of what? i never claimed jones never used.

he pissed hot for the same thing and?

either you want to discuss the facts or you don't. if you want a circle jerk do it somewhere else.

I do want to discuss the facts just not with you. So bug someone else.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

Not denying that it doesn't help, it surely does man, i agree with you wholeheartedly, but generally MMA is not as reliant on athleticism, which makes it less likely that fighters take the bespoken PEDs to enhance their athleticism.

I just don't see why as many athlete's in the UFC would be on PEDs as some people suggest.
Plus excusing guys who popped repeatedly "because everyone does it" is bad for the sport and really only a phenomen in MMA. If you test positive in other sports, people sh*t on you and understandably and rightfully so, if you ask me.

Why is MMA not as reliant on athleticism tho? You need many of those characteristics soccer players have and maybe even more to some degree.

I mean sure if your argument involves around actual talent in each sport respectively, then yeah, soccer easily has more athletic players by default. But in terms of required gifts? Nah, I cannot agree with this. Sure there are some shallow divisions in MMA like the heavy division where everyone is out of shape and old as hell but it's a small subset of MMA as a whole.

In the end of the day it's all opinionated. And in fact they did a study on this with experts in the sport industry. They listed Boxing as number 1. MMA as number 6 and soccer at number 10.

https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

I just don't see why as many athlete's in the UFC would be on PEDs as some people suggest.
Plus excusing guys who popped repeatedly "because everyone does it" is bad for the sport and really only a phenomen in MMA. If you test positive in other sports, people sh*t on you and understandably and rightfully so, if you ask me.

Well people do steroids in secrecy for the most obvious reasons. What about Pro Bodybuilders? 99.9% of those guys do steroids but we cannot prove it. (By 99.9% I mean 100%).

Here's what we know and probably are true: MMA users in the past have been using roids. People were getting popped for roids. People are still getting pop for roids under USADA. Athletes all around the world in many different sports are all using PEDS. A huge majority of people in the Olympics are using PEDS. All those powerlifters in the Olymipics are using PEDS. The USADA are testing olymipic atheletes and people still passing tests.

So my question to you is why wouldn't people in MMA use drugs like everyone else across all sports? Performance is everything. There are millions of dollars on the line here. My second question to you would be: Do you think Jon Jones used PEDS intentionally? If the answer is yes : Why would one of the greatest fighters ever who has no equal at LHW still continue to use PEDS? If the answer is no because you believe he's clean then you might be naive.

If you test positive in other sports, people sh*t on you and understandably and rightfully so, if you ask me.

Okay? That's a culturally issue and a different topic.

 

[acannxr]

Jan 2015: Hearsay and supposition.

The deviation of Jones' T/E ratio is not hearsay or supposition, it's a red flag and would've called for isotope testing, but USADA was not in effect at that time.

Mar 2016: Not Jones.

No, it's a teammate who popped for the same substance, whose situation sets future precedent (relevant further down in the post).

Jun 2016: Positive test for Clomiphene and Letrozole, but considered a tainted pill, followed up with your appeal to "common sense" to fill in the gaps in the actual evidence.

Jones received the maximum punishment possible as a first time offender for those substances, and the fact that the friend who purchased the dick pill also purchased clomiphene in the same order can't be dismissed so easily. You seem to think that the arbitration hearing operates the same as a court of law, but it doesn't.

Apr 2017: Not Jones.

It's precedent. Mir tested positive for turinabol, was a first time offender, had no tainted supplements, and received two years. Jones tested positive for turinabol, was a second time offender, had no tainted supplements, and I correctly predicted a four year suspension (it was only reduced because Jones snitched).

Aug 2017: Jones says he wasn't on steroids, which you decide means he was.

No, he said that he was "off steroids", which is much different than saying he "wasn't on steroids"; you can't be "off steroids" unless you were previously on steroids. You're undermining your argument by changing the specifics of my post.

Jul 2017: Positive test for Turinabol.

Of which Jones could provide no tainted supplement to account for the positive test, which again, is evidence of his guilt.

Sep 2018: Description of a punishment, not a violation.

Do you think I wrote that post in response to this one? Check the date. It's a timeline of Jones' entire case, not just the violations.

Feb 2018: Failure to report supplement; no actual PED violation.

See above regarding Jones providing no tainted supplement; and it actually is an USADA violation to be taking a non-disclosed supplement.

Oct 2017-Aug 2018: No testing, so the implied conclusion is that Jones was taking PEDs every day over that period. After all, no failed tests proves it, right? (Similar logic as Aug 2017.)

No, it's showing a serious flaw in USADA's drug testing program, especially when they issue retroactive suspensions.

Dec 2018, Jan 2019, Feb 2019: Turinabol pulsing.

Which no science can support. In fact the only science on the substance (M3 metabolite) says that it has a detection window of 50 days, not the years that USADA/Jones' have been alleging.

Everything else is wishful thinking and assumption.

 

[Mammothman]

yeah.

it couldn't possibly be that he's been caught cheating at least 3 times. no, no. just the butthurt.

Pretty sure he have been hated way before his failed tests

 

[acannxr]

Pretty sure he have been hated way before his failed tests

Rampage called Jones out on being fake, Evans called Jones out on being fake, and then Jones went and crashed his Bentley after drinking and cheating on his childrens' mother, thereby validating both Rampage and Evans' claims.

The eye pokes and backing out against Sonnen also didn't endear him to the fans.

 

[Mammothman]

Rampage called Jones out on being fake, Evans called Jones out on being fake, and then Jones went and crashed his Bentley after drinking and cheating on his childrens' mother, thereby validating both Rampage and Evans' claims.

The eye pokes and backing out against Sonnen also didn't endear him to the fans.

The whole Sonnen thing was pretty bad, we all blame that fucking sport killer Greg Jackson, what a weirdo man

 

[Draxton]

Still not a concrete answer, the two infractions were explained by dick pills and tainted supplements. I'm looking for an answer to why he is labeled a drug cheat despite these reasons

Actually the second time they could not find any tainted supplements and to this day have never found the source of the steroids in his system.

 

[Eater of Souls]

The deviation of Jones' T/E ratio is not hearsay or supposition, it's a red flag and would've called for isotope testing, but USADA was not in effect at that time.


No, it's a teammate who popped for the same substance, whose situation sets future precedent (relevant further down in the post).


Jones received the maximum punishment possible as a first time offender for those substances, and the fact that the friend who purchased the dick pill also purchased clomiphene in the same order can't be dismissed so easily. You seem to think that the arbitration hearing operates the same as a court of law, but it doesn't.


It's precedent. Mir tested positive for turinabol, was a first time offender, had no tainted supplements, and received two years. Jones tested positive for turinabol, was a second time offender, had no tainted supplements, and I correctly predicted a four year suspension (it was only reduced because Jones snitched).


No, he said that he was "off steroids", which is much different than saying he "wasn't on steroids"; you can't be "off steroids" unless you were previously on steroids. You're undermining your argument by changing the specifics of my post.


Of which Jones could provide no tainted supplement to account for the positive test, which again, is evidence of his guilt.


Do you think I wrote that post in response to this one? Check the date. It's a timeline of Jones' entire case, not just the violations.


See above regarding Jones providing no tainted supplement; and it actually is an USADA violation to be taking a non-disclosed supplement.


No, it's showing a serious flaw in USADA's drug testing program, especially when they issue retroactive suspensions.


Which no science can support. In fact the only science on the substance (M3 metabolite) says that it has a detection window of 50 days, not the years that USADA/Jones' have been alleging.

Excellent post. This is further complicated by the fact that other compounds will be released from adipose tissue such as THC. Now, the standards set by USADA for said compound are wholly arbitrary. No study has ever been done under fight week conditions so how much will be released secondary to changes in ACTH levels, dehydration and starvation is unknown. But the pulsatile effects are clearly demonstrated. Yet look at the bans handed out. The primary problem is that USADA is run by lawyers, not scientists.

A very prolific USADA shill tried to insist that you would have to smoke within 48 hours of a test to fail, and ran away when called on to provide a source.

 

[Captain Herb]

Jan 2015: Hearsay and supposition.
Mar 2016: Not Jones.
Jun 2016: Positive test for Clomiphene and Letrozole, but considered a tainted pill, followed up with your appeal to "common sense" to fill in the gaps in the actual evidence.
Apr 2017: Not Jones.
Aug 2017: Jones says he wasn't on steroids, which you decide means he was.
Jul 2017: Positive test for Turinabol.
Sep 2018: Description of a punishment, not a violation.
Feb 2018: Failure to report supplement; no actual PED violation.
Oct 2017-Aug 2018: No testing, so the implied conclusion is that Jones was taking PEDs every day over that period. After all, no failed tests proves it, right? (Similar logic as Aug 2017.)
Dec 2018, Jan 2019, Feb 2019: Turinabol pulsing.

You should go lawyer for the republicans. No obstruction, no collusion, no quid pro Quo, no bribery, no high crimes and misdemeanors, no evidence, witch hunt.

 

[Viper2]

The one thing that Jon Jones fans hate is, that they know he wouldn't have the fight record that he has without heavy PED usage. He is a champion because of heavy PED usage. It's a truth that many Jon Jones fans don't want to admit.

Fedor may have used PEDs too, but it was surely in much smaller dosages. That's why Fedor is the true GOAT of MMA. Also, Fedor was not scared to fight in the Heavyweight division like Jon Jones is scared to do.

 

[randomg1t]

Pretty sure he have been hated way before his failed tests

and the number of people who hate his guts is exactly the same it was before he was busted for PEDs multiple times?

you do understand both statements can be true, right? a bunch of people didn't like him before because he behaved like an asshole. the number of people who don't like him increased exponentially once it became clear he's not only an asshole, but a dirty cheat as well.

that doesn't mean everyone is butthurt. it means jones is insufferable.