Can someone please explain Jon Jones' PED history/infractions?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by CaesarSinclair34, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Aluminati

    Aluminati Platinum ordo seclorum

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,124
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Location:
    Chilling with the Bilderburg Group
    The source of the Turinabol infraction post DC 2 fight was never determined, and he received a reduced sentence for substantial assistance (snitching). Then, after they reduced his sentence, he kept pissing hot for residual M3 metabolites. They determined this was residual "pulsing", and not evidence of "re-ingestion". Jones fans have been deliberately confusing Novitsky's statements about his pulsing to try to say the second infraction was excused... but it wasn't.

    Tl;Dr; Jones has pissed hot so many times that it's hard to keep track of the timeline.
     
  2. Only Here for Attachments

    Only Here for Attachments Stipe Justice Warrior

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Messages:
    22,419
    Likes Received:
    61,147
    Sherdoggers are butthurt Jon beat all their favorite fighters
     
    Mammothman likes this.
  3. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,848
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    yeah.

    it couldn't possibly be that he's been caught cheating at least 3 times. no, no. just the butthurt.
     
  4. frye666

    frye666 Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,933
    Likes Received:
    8,853
    Well, does a clean innocent fighter hide under a ring for hours if the testers show up?
     
  5. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 Eggplant Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Nope. I'd be a huge fan of him if he didn't repeatedly pop, have strange T-levels (to put it nicely) and fuck things up outside of the cage as well. (Even if he still did the latter without doing the former, i'd still be a massive fan of him as a fighter).
     
    hisandherpes likes this.
  6. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 Eggplant Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Saying that everyone "is something" is just as naive as saying nobody is.
    Pretty sure there are enough clean athletes inside the UFC, especially since PEDs don't give you as much of an edge in MMA (at least since USADA has been introduced) and the majority of the UFC-fighters doesn't have the money to pay for undetectable designer-drugs anyways.
     
  7. Joe_Armstrong

    Joe_Armstrong Starfleet Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,142
    Likes Received:
    4,175
    Location:
    On the Balance
    He was stripped 2 times from the belt, and 1 time from an interim belt.
     
    Captain Herb and hisandherpes like this.
  8. Local Plata

    Local Plata Hitchslap Belt Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,518
    Likes Received:
    5,228
    Location:
    CA
    Because despite Joe Rogan's retarded bullshit, there is literally no reason a dick pill/supplement company would be putting expensive ass steroids in their products. Rogan is so fucking retarded he thinks cocaine being added to creatine is a thing.
     
  9. 91 seconds

    91 seconds Disposable Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    Messages:
    7,143
    Likes Received:
    8,910
    Location:
    Catskill Ny/Pa
    Sometimes Rogan just needs a good kick in the nuts imo.
     
  10. Thepaintbucket

    Thepaintbucket Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    13,601
    Likes Received:
    19,743
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 Eggplant Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Well, athleticism isn't as important in MMA as it is in other sports, like soccer for example.
    Not saying PEDs don't make a difference, but they're not as beneficial in MMA.
     
  12. tjumper78

    tjumper78 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,198
    Likes Received:
    1,335
    the tainted supplement excuses from the millionaire athletes are always believable.
     
    Sädspridaren likes this.
  13. Thepaintbucket

    Thepaintbucket Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    13,601
    Likes Received:
    19,743
    If peak performance isn't a thing in MMA you wouldn't have a bunch of top level guys in MMA who are willing to risk it in the USADA era.
     
    randomg1t and Ironnik94 like this.
  14. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    31,135
    Likes Received:
    10,754
    It’s a timeline. Some of it is factual, some editorial and some without context. Not sure why mir is in there. He didn’t address the arbitration agreements. And what’s the conclusion on his 2018 and 2019 test results?
     
    Gamer2k4 likes this.
  15. Intellidamus

    Intellidamus Title Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Just another case of the man trying to bring an innocent brother down. First Oj Simpson now Jon Jones.
     
    Ironnik94 likes this.
  16. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 Eggplant Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Not denying that it doesn't help, it surely does man, i agree with you wholeheartedly, but generally MMA is not as reliant on athleticism, which makes it less likely that fighters take the bespoken PEDs to enhance their athleticism.

    I just don't see why as many athlete's in the UFC would be on PEDs as some people suggest.
    Plus excusing guys who popped repeatedly "because everyone does it" is bad for the sport and really only a phenomen in MMA. If you test positive in other sports, people sh*t on you and understandably and rightfully so, if you ask me.
     
  17. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,848
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    what makes you say that?

    you don't think speed, strength and endurance play a crucial part in fighting? there's a whole bunch of fighters who have shitty technique and are winning fights in spectacular fashion with nothing but athleticism.
     
    surrealworlds likes this.
  18. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 Eggplant Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Fair enough, i'm going to copy and paste another post of mine here in a few seconds, which should clear up what i mean by that!

    EDIT:
    slicebergjim said:

    - Why do fighters enter their prime late compared to other sports?

    There's a couple of reasons, i'm going to list the most important ones (in my opinion)


    One reason and in my opinion the significantly smaller one, is the talent-pool. If there is someone who's got the talent for being a good soccer player (or player in another ballsport), chances are he will participate in that sport. Now i don't know where you are from, but where i'm from, 99,99% (you probably could add some nines and would still be right) of all people have played soccer at some point in their lives, and a big part of them did so in a club.
    So basically it's super unlikely to happen to have talent for a ballsport but never participating in any and with all those people who do play these sports, only the best get to the top.

    Now to the other reason, which - in my opinion - is the main factor:
    The nature of the sport/s themselves.
    In the highest levels of soccer, almost every impactful action on the pitch is also dependant on athleticism. No matter your technical ability and intelligence, in order to dribble past someone, you have to be quick, in order to play 90 minutes without losing your concentration due to exhaustion, you need lots of cardio and so on. You generally can not get away with being only "somewhat athletic" (for a soccer player, mind you!) with the exception of a very few situations, but to make up for it, you need lots of experience and/or instincts and/or technique.
    Strikers who rely heavily on positional play and anticipation for example, can still be very good at the ages of 36+ (examples: Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Miroslav Klose, Cristiano Ronaldo) while players who're relying on explosive speed usually only remain lightning fast until the ages of 31-33 years (examples: Arjen Robben, Theo Walcott).
    Players who rely on technique and intelligence (playmakers, mostly midfielders) can also be elite until the ages of 36+ (examples: Andres Iniesta, Xavi, Xabi Alonso).
    In the highest levels of MMA, a mixture of cardio (both aerobic and anaerobic), strength and speed (explosivity) is important, however, there are less situations where a maximum of strength/speed/stamina is needed, because MMA inherently has way more paths to victory (through good decision-making) than soccer (for the single player/fighter, that is).
    In soccer, there's for example only a few players you can pass the ball to in a particular situation and often, the pass to one certain player is the best choice in a certain situation.
    To generally know/see, which player that is, you don't need to be even close to the elite in terms of knowledge about the sport, as it's often extremely obvious to which player one should pass (to assist a goal, for example). Good decision making in soccer is way less dependant on intelligence than good decision making in MMA; a person couldn't be able to count 2+2 together, yet be a fantastic player, since the game itself is very simple and thus requires (very) high levels of hand-eye coordination, a quick reaction time and high levels of athleticism, since intelligence alone doesn't lead to any significant advantage on the field that isn't heavily outweighed by disadvantages caused by the lacks of ability and/or athleticism.
    Another thing is, that with the exceptions of how to shoot, pass and receive a ball and maybe a some advices on how to intercept a ball during a duel, there's almost nothing you can learn technical-wise in soccer, which is also the reason that technical ability isn't taught, but inherent to every player.
    (Also: you can't train hand-eye coordination beyond a certain level, which is why training on some skills in football beyond a certain amount of time is redundant.)
    In MMA, there's a variety of techniques in every aspect, be it striking, grappling or footwork, etc., so naturally, there is always an area where there are significant improvements are possible.

    To conclude it; soccer is less tactical when we look at how an individual has to approach certain situations and therefore depends more on a) skills that can't be improved beyond a certain level, like hand-eye coordination, reaction time and others, and b) on athleticism, especially anaerobic endurance, explosivity and aerobic endurance, whereas MMA is very tactical to begin with and furthermore has a humongous horizon for technical and tactical improvements that can significantly alter the outcome of a fight, even after being many years into the sport as a fighter, which is in my opinion the biggest reason that up to a certain age, fighters can make up for their physical decline.

    2nd EDIT: if two fighters have skills that neutralize each other, then of course the more athletic one more than often wins, but that is not to say that athleticism is as important as skill, especially beyond a certain level.
     
  19. surrealworlds

    surrealworlds <-----.............

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    4,821
    Everyone knows you will defend Jones's innocence until your dying day @kflo. Nothing to discuss with you.

    To answer your question though, Mir is brought up AND the context is given in the thread. He was Jones training partner and pissed hot for the same thing Jones did.
    Tag someone else. I think your love of Jones is annoying.
     
  20. Gamer2k4

    Gamer2k4 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Location:
    Wisconsin, USA
    I appreciate you giving a proper response, as opposed to the first dozen or so people who just said "uh yeah well everyone knows so give it a rest, because no one can doubt it because everyone knows" without actually answering TS's question.

    That said, the list of "evidence" is, upon closer inspection, pretty bare. Let's go through your dates one by one.

    Jan 2015: Hearsay and supposition.
    Mar 2016: Not Jones.
    Jun 2016: Positive test for Clomiphene and Letrozole, but considered a tainted pill, followed up with your appeal to "common sense" to fill in the gaps in the actual evidence.
    Apr 2017: Not Jones.
    Aug 2017: Jones says he wasn't on steroids, which you decide means he was.
    Jul 2017: Positive test for Turinabol.
    Sep 2018: Description of a punishment, not a violation.
    Feb 2018: Failure to report supplement; no actual PED violation.
    Oct 2017-Aug 2018: No testing, so the implied conclusion is that Jones was taking PEDs every day over that period. After all, no failed tests proves it, right? (Similar logic as Aug 2017.)
    Dec 2018, Jan 2019, Feb 2019: Turinabol pulsing.

    So, to answer TS's question directly...

    That is exactly correct, and even a comprehensive timeline offers no evidence beyond the violations you mentioned. Everything else is wishful thinking and assumption.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.