Can people finally stop predicting that Jones will be outwrestled?

[whynotme]

Jones looked fresh after 5th round with DC

 

[Ancient Warrior]

Actually, I understand that better than pretty much anyone on here, that's what the thread was about, numbnuts.

DC > Jones in pure wrestling
Jones > DC in MMA wresling

I know what you said.

You also clearly made the blanketed statement that people need to stop predicting Jones will be outwrestled. His past results doesn't mean he has the wrestling market permanently cornered. Referencing mma wrestling in the same paragraph doesn't give you any additional leverage.

 

[Leoooo]

Seriously, good point. He's a better wrestler for MMA than GSP, I don't care what anyone says.

He really isn't ...
The wrestling last night, looked pretty even, with Jones getting the slight edge primarily because of his physical proportions.

He couldn't do much against Gustafsson and even got taken down, because Gustafsson was even taller and just as long as him.

GSP pretty much dominated everyone with his wrestling, and didn't have any special physical advantage.

 

[SevenDeadlySins]

The Gus... so no, people will not stop until he proves otherwise.

 

[Drogon]

Well, I admit, I though rashad and cormier would a lot better wrestling with jones. Him owning cormier like that really does speak volumes though since cormier had already been quite successful in mma as well as wrestling.

 

[ufcfan4]

Jones' stellar takedown defense was a matter of record. Gus netting the takedown was impressive in a "holy shit" type of way purely because Jones is so good at stifling takedowns and Gus is more of a striker than a grappler (though he's very good in that area as well). That said, the important of that takedown sort of fades with the notion that Jones regained his feet extremely quickly. Not trying to negate Alex's accomplishment there. Just saying that Jones hasn't had to fight off his back for any period of time in the UFC which speaks to his tremendous defensive wrestling ability.

 

[MrCarano]

it's easy to be a great wrestler when you're like a sky scraper towering over your opponents.

jones is great, obviously, but his height exacerbates his ability.

That's why Struve is an unstoppable wrestler, right?

 

[Sherdoggy]

To me, and most certainly many others it has been clear for a long time that Jones is the best MMA wrestler. But no matter how many credentialed wrestlers he destroys, people never stop predicting him to get outwrestled.

Hamill

When I saw the length, speed and coordination of Jones I thought he would need to face a wrestler to lose. And then he fought Hamill. They clinched up and the next thing you see is Hamill being rag-dolled to the canvas, in the same way that Cormier got it last night. After seeing that I had to wonder how someone could possibly beat Jones.

 

[Steve08]

That said, the important of that takedown sort of fades with the notion that Jones regained his feet extremely quickly. Not trying to negate Alex's accomplishment there.

Why is nobody saying the same shit about Jones/DC? Jones was only able to get a bit of control off of literally one takedown, he didnt do anything with them otherwise, and yet people act as if he was just ragdolling Cormier all over the place. lol.

Also love how, ignoring extremely easy takedowns off of caught kicks, nobody is discussing how Jones failed to take down DC until he was gassed.

With this takedown:

Alex only manages to clear Jones's hand and elbow defense by slipping past a jab, meaning that Jones was exposed in wrestling due to his striking, which incidentally is precisely how Jones took DC down the first time (i.e. by catching his kick then tripping him), and also how Gus took down Jones the first time. It has nothing to do with wrestling so much as MMA skill and timing.

On the other hand, a far superior wrestler Cormier was never able to achieve the same dominant grappling position that Gustafsson was able to establish in that gif, however briefly he may have done so. It's because he never managed to find the same openings for TDs in Jones's striking, and always made his intention to take down Jones obvious. He just wasnt setting up his TDs, which is pretty essential in elite level martial arts. However, you can get the same effect of a set-up takedown, with timing, as Gustafsson did, and indeed, as Jones did by pulling a non-wrestling striker's move and catching a kick before Cormier found himself winded from several grueling rounds of clinch warfare.

The fact that a non-wrestler in Gus was easily able to take down a JUCO champ in Jones after getting himself into good position (regardless of how he did so) should speak volumes about how important prevention is in terms of takedown defense. Anyone can be put into a position to be taken down. However, some people are almost impossible to put in a position to be taken down. DC was never able to get in a mechanically superior position to take down Jones, but it wasnt because of his wrestling; rather, his striking.

 

[Steve08]

They clinched up and the next thing you see is Hamill being rag-dolled to the canvas, in the same way that Cormier got it last night. After seeing that I had to wonder how someone could possibly beat Jones.

He only double legged him, against the cage with no room to defend, after he gassed.

Bruh.

The wrestling exchanges were extremely even until the later rounds where Jones was clearly fresher.

 

[strawberry]

He only double legged him, against the cage with no room to defend, after he gassed.

Bruh.

The wrestling exchanges were extremely even until the later rounds where Jones was clearly fresher.

Yeah- people need to stop shitting themselves about the TD's last night. There wasn't a meaningful one in the whole fight, including DC's slam of JJ. The real story was JJ controlling the clinch all night. In that regard, it's plenty accurate to say that JJ "outwrestled" Cormier.

 

[rodn86]

That's why Struve is an unstoppable wrestler, right?

no, because struve isn't that good whereas jones is very good.

stop hitting me with that reductio ad absurdum shit.

 

[mightymask]

Not when he wrestles someone who is his height.

 

[It Just Is]

Not when he wrestles someone who is his height.

Vera, Bonnar, and O'brien were all around Jones' height if not taller. O'brien was a heavyweight at one point of his life.

Gus got Jones down one time, just one, and it came when Jones was off balance from a kick. I don't see how that's called being outwrestled, Gus couldn't even hold Jon down for any period of time.

I don't think there's a current fighter on the roster that simply ragdolls Jones.