Can Joe Calzaghe be considered a great?
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The Terminator
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He is a legend to me, and was the best in his weight class until he retired. That's all that matters to me, and I could care less about what anyone who dislikes him or called him "Calslappy" has to say.
Before the fight with Jeff Lacy, everyone and their great-grandmother was picking the undefeated Lacy who was steamrolling through his opponents, to beat Joe. I think Lacy was even the favorite going into that fight. Joe pitched a shutout and he nearly got Lacy out of there in the later rounds.
That was actually the first time I saw Joe Calzaghe fight from what I remember. I became an instant fan. I think Lacy suffered mentally after the defeat as well and he has not done anything impressive since then.
And what he did against Roy Jones before retiring impressed the hell out of me despite being knocked down in the first. Joe still came back to shut out one of the greatest p4p fighters ever, who even at his age is still showing signs of being able to fight at a high level.
Before the fight with Jeff Lacy, everyone and their great-grandmother was picking the undefeated Lacy who was steamrolling through his opponents, to beat Joe. I think Lacy was even the favorite going into that fight. Joe pitched a shutout and he nearly got Lacy out of there in the later rounds.
That was actually the first time I saw Joe Calzaghe fight from what I remember. I became an instant fan. I think Lacy suffered mentally after the defeat as well and he has not done anything impressive since then.
And what he did against Roy Jones before retiring impressed the hell out of me despite being knocked down in the first. Joe still came back to shut out one of the greatest p4p fighters ever, who even at his age is still showing signs of being able to fight at a high level.
Existentialist
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He already is whether you like him or not... his legacy will improve with age like most greats once the vocal anti-Calzaghes settle down a bit and find someone else to hate.
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He's only behind Roy Jones Jr. as a super middleweight in my book. So yeah, he's an all-time great. As an American, I really didn't know much of anything about him until the Kessler fight and didn't watch him until he fought B-Hop. I've been going backwards through his resume gaining respect for his physical talent and intelligence.
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I know this will not go over well but this rubs me the wrong way. I think this is small minded. How do we define greatness? What is the criteria by which it is measured? Is it an unbeaten record alone? Shouldn't it have some component that takes into consideration the level of opposition?
He is know for his unblemished record and four fights, Lacy, Kessler , Hopkins and Jones. I am not sure this makes one an All Time Great in itself. In my mind the last two are suspect for a number of reasons( and an honest person would admit this also). The first Lacy, we all no how he turned out( please dont anyone say he ruined him). Kessler was a good win, how good we are about to find out. If Kessler runs the table in the super six i will revisit this, but for now i can not place him the that rarefied air of ONE of The best.
I think All Time Great is not a mantel that can be placed around someones neck without considerable care.
This is not a exhaustive treatment of the subject but it certainly has some points that must be taken into consideration.
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IF he fought and won the Suprsix he would go down as a legend but probaly go down as a good fighter who beat great names at the end of there careers.
The Terminator
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Are you referring to Bernard Hopkins or Roy Jones Jr.?
Either way, both of them have shown they can still compete at a high level in their respected weight class.
M
McGarnicle**
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Joe Cal really needed the Lacy fight to prove to himself he's better than just a hometown fighter. After the first round, Joe Cal was psyching himself out. "He ain't shit. His power ain't shit. He's got nothing and I can beat him." For the longest of time, he probably doubt his own skills. And you know what, that is unfortunate, because I think he would have been a handful for the Glen Johnson's and Roy Jones' in their prime. It's unfortunate he showed up to the party late because I believe it could have been a better career. He's undefeated, and in the top 2 for best super middleweight ever (it's never been a great division though). It's not too shabby, but I wouldn't put him as GREAT. 1 overrated fighter, 1 prime fighter, and 2 over-the-hill fighters. However, B-Hop beating Pavlik so handily helped elevate Joe Cal's career... Anyway, like I said. He showed up late. He's a very, very good fighter. Like de la hoya is a very, very good fighter and 6 division champ. I wouldn't call either of them GREAT though. De la hoya ahead of Joe Cal though. *cough cough*
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McGarnicle**
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Roy Jones proved this?
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He tried to fight Jones for years and never got the opportunity. And I don't get why people discredit the Hopkins win. Hopkins' best wins in his career aside from Tito were all late 30s or in his 40s. He then went on to beat up Pavlik. So on one hand people say he's so great when he wins but if he loses they bring up his age and claim robbery.
Joe also beat Eubank and Bika.
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McGarnicle**
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Eubank was done by the time he got to him. Give him credit for Bika though, but he's just a solid contender.
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McGarnicle**
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Roy Jones was on-top of the world and Joe Cal fought at home. You really can't expect Jones to take him seriously when Joe toiled at home fighting so-so fighter for most of his career.
And Joe... What about Glen Johnson?
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At 147 and below I would consider DLH a great fighter and his resume is pretty damn good. Kind of shitty to compare DLH to Calzaghe
The Terminator
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Will Roy be champion of the world again? I don't know.
But Joe still managed to shut him out, and he made it seem like Roy had no business being in the ring with him.
Roy TKO'd Sheika in 5, however Calzaghe managed to do that 9 years earlier when Sheika was arguably in his prime and Joe was not yet battling with hand injuries.
Roy also went on to humiliate Jeff Lacy (which Calzaghe was the first to do at a time when everyone doubted him), showing great handspeed and he managed to stop Lacy in the 10th.
Depending on Roy's performance against Danny Green on December 2nd, I think we will be able to assess Roy's position at this this stage a little better.
However Joe still managed to convincingly beat Mikkel Kessler, who at this point is in a tournament with the best MW's in world. And from the looks of it, Kessler is a heavy favorite by most peoples standards to wiin the whole tournament.
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McGarnicle**
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Depends on how you define greatness. De la hoya never able to get those big wins and never able to pass the line to greatness. He's much closer than compared to Joe Cal.
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Joe didn't shut out Roy.
Regarding TS, you're argument is not convincing.
But the answer is yes. I'd explain it, but I think you've fucked off from this thread and aren't coming back.
Regarding TS, you're argument is not convincing.
But the answer is yes. I'd explain it, but I think you've fucked off from this thread and aren't coming back.
