Can anyone pinpoint my striking cluelessness?

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Euroscope

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I am by no means the best grappler in the world but at least i know what i'm trying to accomplish at every moment in a match. I'll try to articulate my point. In jiu jitsu you have your submissions & transitional movements, your 'mechanics' (like the jab, uppercut, footwork, etc.), you have your defense (like bobbing & weaving in striking), and you also string moves together in sequence because they follow each other up well (just like boxing combinations). But if that is all i was taught in jiu jitsu i would be much more barbaric and clueless then i am, i would be pure reaction without thought & strategy. But good jiu jitsu teachers go beyonnd that (as do some good jiu jitsu instructionals), they teach you how to think, what to constantly look for, and you at least know what you are trying to accomplish (core concepts & principles are taught to you on top of the moves and reaction drills). Now i have no doubt that these 'head knowledge' concepts exist in striking too, i do realize there's a difference between Muhammad Ali & Butterbean. But what i'm starting to doubt is if the head knowledge part is teachable like it is in jiu jitsu (seems like you just either have it or you don't). I've asked many good strikers advice on concepts and it seems like there's nothing more to teach beyond mechanics of motion and quick reflexes. In jiu jitsu the teacher can literally open my eyes to something i haven't been seeing just by explaining a concept to me. There are times where i'm taught a fundamental principle and i'm like "Ahh! Now i have a better idea of what i'm trying to accomplish", but i never got that feeling with striking instruction, i just continue to swing away based on reflexes alone (no gameplan). I been viewing some boxing instructionals lately, to give me that eye opening "Ahh, Ok i get the basic concept now" feeling, but it never happens to me with striking. It's just mechanical instruction on how to move, how to jab, how to throw a combo, etc. So am i right, is it kind of something that you either 'Have' or you 'Don't have.' Can anyone prove me wrong with a good concept oriented dvd? Cause i don't have it and i feel lost when striking but not when grappling
 
When you have somebody trying to hit you in the face and the speed at which striking occurs it makes it more difficult to be analytical. You can get overwhelmed especially when you don't have a lot of experience as in actual sparring session. There is actually a lot of bad habits that you need to teach yourself not to do and just generally relaxing, not blinking so much, throwing clean punches takes time to learn...never mind recognizing all the angles, defense, and footwork you have to put together. With experience it does all slow down and you can start recognizing certain movements where openings are or tendencies in an opponent. You can game plan, but its a bit more dynamic and I originally had a tendency to over-analyze a bit which can be a bad idea if it makes you inactive or start second guessing.

Sometimes you just have to shut your mind down a bit and let your body react naturally - autonomous movements. Well for me I just had to let my hands go. With time came natural progressions and if you want there is opportunities to game plan from there. Don't really have a DVD.
 
Wow, that was a pretty detailed response thanks. I see your point, way more dynamic and moves so much faster. I do remember one example of actually coming across a cool striking 'technical concept.' This is the only example i ever came across that gave me that 'Wow what a cool detail' reaction (like i get a lot in jiu jitsu). I read a review awhile ago, forget who it was but the guy was talking about how you want to align your forward foot in the same line as his lead hand, He went on to explain why, giving reasons you want to follow that concept and why it hurts you if your foot is misaligned, and how many people don't realize it and they make that mistake. He explained how it makes you more open for a right hand, etc. Now that is what i'm talking about! A tangible, unambiguous concept and explaination for it that helps me understand the game more AND reduces my confusion of what i am constantly trying to accomplish. That is the kind of instructional i want, one that's full of cool concepts such as that. Maybe i just been asking the people, lol. However i do get your point, there is less think time and more reaction, but maybe i'm missing a happy medium of at least some nice technical details and concepts to focus on, even if it is at suuper speed
 
I would recommend enrolling in boxing classes.
YES I SAID IT LOL A lot of people stay away from boxing because of their love for MMA but don't let that stop you. I have learned a ton of valuable info from boxing classes and I really recommend taking classes but then again I started in boxing. I believe in working on the fundamentals and a good boxing coach will teach you those basics.
 
One more question:
Are you actually sparing or are you just working on your striking alone?
I missed this for years by training alone. YOU HAVE TO SPARE WITH OTHERS to get your timing down. You simply can't do it any other way.
That may be the missing piece to your puzzle.
In any case good luck with your training.
 
thepopularjock said:
I would recommend enrolling in boxing classes.
YES I SAID IT LOL A lot of people stay away from boxing because of their love for MMA but don't let that stop you. I have learned a ton of valuable info from boxing classes and I really recommend taking classes but then again I started in boxing. I believe in working on the fundamentals and a good boxing coach will teach you those basics.
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^^^ This. Training at a legit boxing (or Muay Thai) gym will get you much better striking instruction than you will get at a MMA gym. Obviously there will be exceptions idepending on the head striking instructor but often it seems that MMA gyms teach "striking for MMA" instead of teaching boxing or Muay Thai and all of the fundamentals that come with it and then applying it to MMA.
 
DrBdan said:
^^^ This. Training at a legit boxing (or Muay Thai) gym will get you much better striking instruction than you will get at a MMA gym. Obviously there will be exceptions idepending on the head striking instructor but often it seems that MMA gyms teach "striking for MMA" instead of teaching boxing or Muay Thai and all of the fundamentals that come with it and then applying it to MMA.
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i think my gym is certainly guilty of this (teaching muay thai for mma not decent striking) thats why i'm supplementing my training at a boxing club.
 
Sparring is the most important. That's where you start picking up strategy, planning and the like.

Think about it. As a grappler, if you never rolled, or just rolled once a week, you would have a hard time putting everything together.
 
I kind of spar, meaning with a couple karate guys and nobody is trying to knock anyone out, medium power i guess. Your advice to learn from boxers instead of MMA guys reminds me of takedown advice some people give. Some people say the best way to maximize take down ability is not to train with a jiu jitsu takedown specialist but rather a Greco-Roman wrestler because they're the best. Sounds similar to the 'train with boxers not MMA guys' advice
 
While the speed of striking exchanges makes long thought out insights a bit more difficult than in grappling, once you have a few years of serious strikingly under your belt, you'll start doing the same kind of analysis as in bjj. It just takes longer. Striking basically is less intuitive than grappling, maybe because you can roll a lot more than you can spar.

Also, get a real coach. Stop asking friends for advice
 
remember when you first started jiu jitsu and you knew nothing? remember how you thought you'd go to class and dominate but instead found out that you sucked and were mounted, triangled, rear nakeded, armbared by everyone and anyone who'd been training more than a few weeks? well eventually you learned the bare basics, enough to stop being submitted every 5 seconds right? then you found out some guys are alot better than others because they've spent more time learning right? those guys still tapped you every 5 seconds, but against a white belt you were lasting 20-30 seconds? then you start getting even better right? sometimes you don't get tapped at all by white belts, yet those guys still tap you in 5 seconds? then you get even better, and those white belts are getting submitted by you right? but what happens when you go against the better guys now? all of a sudden you last 10-15-20 seconds, and you aren't wondering why you're getting so lucky, you're concentrating on the technique. you can see that with alot more time you'll be able to last against those pesky blue belts. then you'll be tapping them? then you must be able to last against the purple belts too, given time, right? you'll tap them too if you have anything to say about it! all the way until you're up there with the best of the best. you feel its obtainable right?

well, the point of my story is that, you get used to anything, sooner or later it just becomes your life.

with striking you start with this vauge idea that you are equal to anyone and everyone else. eventually you start to pick up that theres technique involved too. you start to remember to keep your hands up, to tuck your chin, open your eyes, to rotate away from the rear hand, to pick up distance and footwork, then you begin to work your hands, your cross becomes a dominant tool, the mistakes of the beginners become obvious and you use the mistakes against them in a way that is almost effortless, like jiu jitsu.

you'll adapt, with constant practice. focus on improving each time you go out, by the end of the day, you might not feel that improved, but give it another day, and then another day, and then another day, and then another day, and then another, and then another and see where you are. you'll realize that a week later, you're improved sooooooo much, you don't even know how stupid you were before. those things will stick with you for life. now if even just a week of training can make you so much better, imagine those guys whove been doing it for years. no fucking wonder they make you feel helpless. you were throwing haymakers, they took advantage. just like in jiu jitsu. except, jiu jitsu focuses on gross motor movements, which, altho still quite fast, are also very easy to get used to, and are not nearly as fast as fine motor movements. With fine motor movements (such as punching) ect, the hands are these tools that when untrained can move so fast that they are still deadly. However, when these tools are trained they can move so fast that they will be even deadlier.

the hands move very, very fast. don't worry. with time and practice, recognition of moves, combos, angles, ect, ect, ect, it'll slow the fuck down in your mind.

beginners suck. don't worry. thats the good part. you aren't being asked anything more than just learning. so. be a fucking spounge.
 
its called 'ring craft' and its a huge part of the game. as previous posters have said the best way to learn it is sparring sparring sparring. it also helps to have a good coach who can point out what you are doing right/wrong
 
Get hold of Rodney Kings Fight Compass DVD's. They are excellent for giving you an idea of the concepts of different fighting styles, strategies and ring craft. Yes they pertain to boxing but you can adapt the fundamentals to kicking styles too.
 
I have to agree with the past few posts but get yourself to a boxing gym or kickboxing gym, I joined an mma gym a while back, coming from boxing, anyway I realised while training that these guys were great athletes they were very sloppy with their stand up, purely as they didnt concentrate on it. I have no idea why, as I think stand up is the big leveller in mma!
 
singdawg said:
remember when you first started jiu jitsu and you knew nothing? remember how you thought you'd go to class and dominate but instead found out that you sucked and were mounted, triangled, rear nakeded, armbared by everyone and anyone who'd been training more than a few weeks? well eventually you learned the bare basics, enough to stop being submitted every 5 seconds right? then you found out some guys are alot better than others because they've spent more time learning right? those guys still tapped you every 5 seconds, but against a white belt you were lasting 20-30 seconds? then you start getting even better right? sometimes you don't get tapped at all by white belts, yet those guys still tap you in 5 seconds? then you get even better, and those white belts are getting submitted by you right? but what happens when you go against the better guys now? all of a sudden you last 10-15-20 seconds, and you aren't wondering why you're getting so lucky, you're concentrating on the technique. you can see that with alot more time you'll be able to last against those pesky blue belts. then you'll be tapping them? then you must be able to last against the purple belts too, given time, right? you'll tap them too if you have anything to say about it! all the way until you're up there with the best of the best. you feel its obtainable right?

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Great post.
 
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