Calling all squatters, need help!

[dinpappa]

Some background info (skippable):

So, i`ve always squatted highbar/olympic style squats, mainly because thats what I was thought when i started. This has lead me to a girly 1RM at 310 lbs @ 180 lbs BW.
So i started reading, watching and digging to find all the info i could on the squat, and i got really interested in the "low bar" position as Ripptoe teaches and shows on the Starting Strength DVD. So far I have addressed the squat depth, the hip drive, the width of the stance, and worked hard on my hamstring and glute for assistance! But no, my squats remained at a girly 310lbs. SO on to my question

The question:

So after a whole evening watching the Ripptoe "squat" video, and Elite FTS "so you think you can squat" and similar videos i was ready to hit the gym and test this low bar position. At the warmup it felt good (only the bar) it felt more "balanced" and i didnt feel so proned to tip forward. BUT! once i added weight i got a problem. I couldnt for the life of it find the placement of the bar! So it felt like only the wrists and forearms supported the weight of the entire bar, and it slipped down the angle of the back. If i tried to adjust by turning the elbows back to "push it into my back" it felt like my wrists were gonna break from the weight of the bar.

Its REALLY hard to describe as english is not my first language, but it felt like the bar had nowhere to "rest" on the back, like it does on the traps on the highbar, resulting in feeling like only my hands kept it in place wich again results in i cannot add weight!

Any tips? is it poor shoulder mobility or?

any help is appreciated, this is really depressing and to quote Louis C.K. "Ruined my day"

PS: I do train, say my prayers and eat my vitamines, trying to be a real american. HOAH!

 

[Baconator69**]

Do you fight for the rights of everyman?

I dont know what to tell you about the squat though.

 

[Justice 4 All]

Did you retract the scapulae, push out the chest, pull the elbows back, place the bar or the rear deltoids, and lean ever so slightly forward?

How wide was your grip?

 

[PWR1982]

Tried using a thumbless grip? If the bar is slipping down, maybe using a more narrow grip could help?

Maybe the bar is too low? Not sure whether that could be the reason, or whether it even makes sense at all.

 

[VoodooPlata]

I had this exact same experience last tuesday. Sucked. Bump for answers.

 

[flak]

Could be that you're not sitting back enough, and as a result your upper body isn't angling forward enough to provide a "platform" for the bar.

Could be you're not pulling your shoulder blades together and sticking out your chest enough.

Could be you don't have enough muscle mass in your upper back to provide a "platform" for the bar.

Could be you're starting with the bar too low on your back.

 

[degoj99]

I thought this thread was going to be about people who live on land that belongs to someone else.

 

[toonie]

I started high bar squats before switching to low bar. When I first started it, it was rough on the shoulders and rough on the wrists.

Thumb-less grip helped me overcome the wrist issues. Also bringing my elbows up as much as possible and flexing my upper back. Like I said, a lot of people lack shoulder flexibility and it makes the low bar squat a bit uncomfortable at first. I just kept squatting and now it feels way more natural than high bar (I had my doubts at first).

Also, record yourself and compare that to what you see online, or post here for critique.

 

[Searcher]

Keep trying to find the sweet spot. Look at some pictures or something. Your torso should be angled forward a lot, its a different lift than the high bar. I started high bar because I couldn't figure out low bar, and only was able to figure it out with the help of my training partner.

 

[dinpappa]

Hmm, maybe i tried too low, since it was low bar that i just took it too far since it was the first time? Had a pretty narrow grip, but also tried a wide one. The wide was less stressing on the forearms and wrists, but gave much less stability. The narrow gave me a tight back but it was too much of a stress.

Ive thought of the following after reading your answers:

Not leaning forward enough, too low bar and to "tight chest" resulting in bad shoulder mobility to really get the elbows back. When i High bar the traps take all the weight of the bar and the hands are just there to keep it steady, but as it went lower, once it left the traps it was all hands and no "resting place" on the back

When i found this pic i do think i tried to low bar while in a high bar position, so i need to a) lean more forward, wich feels wierd when i unrack it, and b) try to get some more mobility in my chest/shoulders so i can get my arms back there without feeling like a stretching excercise! Also i do feel like i have enought upper back mass to find a resting place, so it should not be the problem.

ADDED INFO I FOUND, THAT MIGHT HELP OTHERS IN THE SAME SITUATION:

Your Size Has a Lot To Do With It.

One thing I’ve found, after reading a lot and trying a lot of tips that other — bigger — powerlifters told me about where to stick the bar and my hands … is your size and flexibility in your shoulders will have a lot to do with it.

Starting Strength says to use a thumbless grip on the bar … when you can use your thumbs if your shoulders are flexible enough and you can get some extra upper back tightness you wouldn’t have before.

This is important for smaller guys who don’t have as much muscle on their upper backs for the bar to sit on. That’s just one example.

Then if you’re a more medium sized guy, you’ll have to move the bar further down your back and spread your hands a little more to accomodate your tighter shoulders and more upper back muscle (which also allows you to sit the bar lower on your back–you have something to rest it on!)

And if you’re a much bigger lifter, then you have plenty of upper back muscle to rest the bar on, and because of this (and usually a lack of flexibility plays a role too) — you can sit the bar a lot lower, and your hands’ll have to go out further too:

Everything you read here and on the internet, and in books, and hear in the gym should be taken with a grain of salt. Realize, that you’ll have to do a lot of experimenting to figure out what works for body type, gets you stronger, and ensures you have more proper technique.

Remember, the goal is to get stronger without hurting yourself. So sometimes it’ll be necessary to over-emphasize some technique stuff … until you go to far with it … then back it up … and eventually you’ll find the “sweet spot” where you’re starting to get it right.

---------

Since i work at a gym i get a chance to play with this everyday, so since i have 3 days rest now but im still going to work, i will play with just the bar and see if i can get it to feel ok

Still, more tips appreciated!

 

[dinpappa]

Is the bar supposed to be on the shoulderblades, or right above them, but under the traps? Hard to see from the picture, because the skinny guy is what i would say a high bar squat is. But lower it rests on the shoulderblades. Think ive looked at too much different stuff now i mix it up and need a rest

 

[DrBdan]

I agree that the picture of the skinny guy looks almost like a high bar squat. It could be that because he is skinny and doesn't have a huge back the difference is less.

The bar should be on your rear deltoids which would put it above your shoulder blades but below your traps.

How to Master The Low Bar Position on Squats | StrongLifts.com

 

[dinpappa]

Would you say this is a good illustration on the differenceo of the two positions?

 

[dinpappa]

I agree that the picture of the skinny guy looks almost like a high bar squat. It could be that because he is skinny and doesn't have a huge back the difference is less.

The bar should be on your rear deltoids which would put it above your shoulder blades but below your traps.

How to Master The Low Bar Position on Squats | StrongLifts.com

When i see this picture i get reassured i had the right idea and was doing low bar, and what stops me is that im stiff as a corpse and cant really find it comfortable getting my hands that far back!

Oh well, time to stretch and power through! I`ll do some low bar just with the bar as warmups until i can comfortably get that posistion with my hands, and just high bar it until then.

 

[calvus]

I think its tough to get used to the low bar position when you're just learning it. I'm still having some difficulty with it, but its getting easier on my wrists & elbows the more I do it.

The biggest key for me is to keep my shoulder blades TIGHT and pulled together really hard through the entire movement from when I lift the bar off the rack to when I re-rack it. If I lose tightness at all, then I'm supporting the bar with my arms & that sucks.

 

[dinpappa]

I think its tough to get used to the low bar position when you're just learning it. I'm still having some difficulty with it, but its getting easier on my wrists & elbows the more I do it.

The biggest key for me is to keep my shoulder blades TIGHT and pulled together really hard through the entire movement from when I lift the bar off the rack to when I re-rack it. If I lose tightness at all, then I'm supporting the bar with my arms & that sucks.

I`ll try to tighten even more, maybe my tight wasn`t TIGHT because i had 100 other things to try and correct at the same time Thanks for the tip

 

[dinpappa]

Damn, tried again! Its my shoulder mobility! I cant get my hands so far back for a low bar!
Time to stretch

 

[zhangmaster12]

Shoulder mobility: do dislocates with a broomstick.

Do more rows as well. A big back = awesome for squatting, and every other aspect of life.

 

[dinpappa]

Ok, so i went back to the gym a couple of times now, and im fortunate to work at one. So every day after people leave i practice with an empty bar, and stretch with a wodden one we got (like a broomstick)

I found the sweet spot now, allthou i have to have wider grip, i understand how and where now i think! So its all about stretching and starting to add some weight. And avoid cramps

 

[Lee-Lee]

im no squat expert but bottom stop squats and squat lock outs from varying heights has helped me a lot, the latter will also kill (read: improve) your CNS and improve your grip/position as the load is so heavy you need it to hit the proper spot for you to complete the exercise. with bottom stop squats you can get a feel for the low bar position through the whole exercise. I never bothered doing shoulder dislocates or anything but they might help..

PS: hva pr