Calling all Bernie Sanders supporters

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by kahiljabroni, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. kahiljabroni

    kahiljabroni Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    4,232
    Ill be upfront and tell you I haven't listened to any of his speeches and have no opinion on the man. From what i hear he's an avowed socialist?

    My questions to you:

    Does he run on the idea that he would complete the trend towards a socialist nation if elected?

    What brand of socialism? No privately owned means of production?

    Why do you support him?

    Would you like the US to be a truely socialist country? If so, tell me a little about yourself...do you have a career, spouse, children? How would you expect it to affect their future?

    Im very curious to learn about his supporters.
     
  2. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,397
    Likes Received:
    563
    No. Even if that was his platform, the legislative system would never allow that kind of drastic change

    Colloquially, he describes himself as a "democratic socialist," which would imply some worker/public ownership of industry. However, his actual platform is that of a "social democrat," at least in the terms of the systems which he is citing (Scandinavia). To that end, he still endorses private means of production with safeguards and regulation to benefit the lower and middle classes

    I believe his policy approach is proven to be successful elsewhere in Europe and I think it's refreshing that he denies corporate influence on his platform

    No, not particularly, but that depends on what a "truly socialist country" entails, as it has never been realized in history. Scandinavia, which still has many capitalist variants, is the closest incarnation. But, yes, I would like us to be closer to their model, which would be good for everyone present and future in my opinion.

    About myself: I'm a 25 year-old law student from a lower-middle class family and was born in a rural farming community. No kids.
     
  3. Chest Rockwell

    Chest Rockwell Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    460
    considering socialist countries have the highest quality of life and the happiest people on earth, it might do a little good to have one in the high post for a few years.
     
  4. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,397
    Likes Received:
    563
    Meh, be careful painting with a broad brush. There are also states that are in ruins and were exploited by single parties under the guise of socialism. Just look at Venezuela. What was originally a very benevolent and successful turn towards the left turned into a totalitarian mess after the private media and Western capitalists funded a coup and forced such heavy-handedness.

    What is very, undeniably clear, however, is that a strong element of socialist variants in not only beneficial, but necessary in a capitalist state.
     
  5. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    16,088
    Likes Received:
    37,824
    Location:
    Za Warudo
    Does he run on the idea that he would complete the trend towards a socialist nation if elected?

    No, though he openly advocates for redistribution from the top to the bottom. Essentially, he wants to balance the budget, but not on the backs of the poor and middle class. So yeah, tax wealthy people more (with very modest tax increases for everyone else), simplify the tax code, and cut down defense spending (among other things). This in theory should allow us to solidify our social safety net and grow the middle class.


    What brand of socialism? No privately owned means of production?

    Democratic Socialism, though not to the full extent where our economy is fully nationalized. To put it as simply as possible, it's sort of the philosophy behind the New Deal (which was incredibly socialist). Give power to the workers against the vastly superior capital of their employers to sort of balance the scales. It's not really taking ownership of production, but it should allow employers to have more skin in the game than they do right now with regards to the welfare of the people they hire.

    Why do you support him?

    Aside from the fact that i'm somewhat of a socialist, he's pushing for a constitutional amendment to invalidate Citizens United v. FEC. In my opinion, that's one of the most grave cuts against our political system since its inception.

    Would you like the US to be a truely socialist country? If so, tell me a little about yourself...do you have a career, spouse, children? How would you expect it to affect their future?

    Well, define "truly socialist". If you're talking about full nationalization of our economy, not really. I do however think that you can make corporations more civic minded through regulatory efforts as we have successfully done in the past. On efforts where they can not directly be civic minded, money talks (taxes). If you're asking whether i'm opposed to paying higher taxes myself, i'm not. If I could pay more taxes and have a national healthcare system, then i'd do it yesterday.
     
  6. carlos cadona

    carlos cadona Opinions subject to change

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,500
    Likes Received:
    2,045
    Bernie Sanders is just a social democrat, similar to a middle of the road type of guy you would find in European politics(except for the fact that he's to the right of Europe on immigration).
     
  7. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    6,593
    Bernie Sanders isnt calling for anything that FDR didnt call for really.
     
  8. KOQ24

    KOQ24 Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    16,904
    Likes Received:
    5,592
    Location:
    Grimmen, Germany
    if you look at sanders positions hes basically a social democrat,which is the center-left in european politics.
    except on immigration where hes further right
     
  9. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,397
    Likes Received:
    563
    Yep and yep
     
  10. 2GunTommy

    2GunTommy Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,981
    Likes Received:
    8,449
    Location:
    Resting in the weeds.
    I like that he is openly opposed to the TPP. Id like to know more about his immigration stance. If its anything like Hillarys then no thanks.
     
  11. WalkenWouldOwn

    WalkenWouldOwn Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    32,549
    Likes Received:
    12,140
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/agenda/


    Some good, concise info here on what he stands for and would seek to accomplish as president.

    Edit, and I am 31, transportation sales manager married with 2 young kids
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  12. Forkfoot

    Forkfoot Red Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,797
    Likes Received:
    259
    There've been some perfect answers already, but I'll share from my own POV anything that hasn't already been covered.

    No and it would be absurd for him to do so if he wanted to. Eight years with a system of checks and balances is not anywhere close to enough time or leverage to bring about a complete transformation on his own. He's very open about the fact that he can't turn this country around without the help of a massive grassroots effort from the people. I like his policies, but I think the fact that if he got elected he'd have the biggest spotlight in the nation to share his ideas with Americans would by itself be hugely transformative. It'd basically force all his ideas into the mainstream media, and he'd actually be given a shot at proving that they can work right in front of everybody.


    Because I'm tired of this shit. Tired of hearing that there's no money to care for the poor but we need to attack Iran and increase military spending. Tired of hearing there's no money for the sick but banks need bailing out and corporations need billions in subsidies. Tired of hearing there's no money for higher education but billionaires need tax breaks so they can buy more elections. Tired of hearing the lower class needs to just pull itself up by its bootstraps while the bodies pile up and the money hemorrhages under the failed and oppressive war on drugs and the booming prison industry. Tired of hearing "This is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles" while sweeping everything that makes Christianity worth a damn under the carpet. Bernie's helping to lead things in a different direction.

    I think our country should keep moving to the left until it stops being fucking insane. When we're no longer pursuing insane domestic and foreign policy, murdering our ecosystem and fucking over everyone in the bottom ninety nine, that's far enough in my book.

    I do hospice care full time and I'm happily divorced with no kids. It's still important to me to leave a better world for the next generations though.
     
  13. Zipp

    Zipp Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    Texas
    Why?

    Because I want to see America acknowledge that it's already got a foot in the socialist hole and that some of our current ways of doing things (i.e. obamacare) are just the worst of both worlds for the common man.

    Would you like to see the US become socialist?

    Within reason. I'll support anything that tips the inequality scales. I know they "provide jobs" but I will never lose sleep over some poor billionaire only getting to have ten sports cars instead of twelve.

    About me?
    I am unmarried with no kids. I'm a school teacher. I expect it will help my field of work.
     
  14. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19,823
    Likes Received:
    29,512
    Sanders would be centrist/conservative by Swedish parliament standards. And look at the havoc socialism wreaked on that nation- burdened with top 3 ranking in all standard of living charts.
     
  15. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    6,593
    Exactly. Pretty much every developed country implements some form of social democracy except the US. Even countries which the right uses as a paragon of free-market policies like Singapore have some elements of it.

    No one ever attempts to explain how this works so well everywhere but would be disastrous for the US other than saying dumb things like "We have brown people here who screw everything up" or"Our country is the biggest in the world!!!!11 Because of that it would never work here!!!"
     
  16. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,397
    Likes Received:
    563
    This thread has cast some light on some outstanding people.
     
  17. Lustercross

    Lustercross Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm just sick of us common folk having to struggle so bad with expensive college and shitty healthcare. It's hard to move up in life if your poor or the bottom of middle class. Meanwhile the kids of rich people get every advantage handed to them. I won't lose any sleep if more money is taken from the rich and distributed to the bottom. The rich do the same thing by taking advantage of hard working people and paying them crumbs.
     
  18. Anung Un Rama

    Anung Un Rama Idol of Millions Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    66,037
    Likes Received:
    57,936
    Location:
    177A Bleeker St
    No.
    Bernie Sanders
    Democratic Socialism

    See Above.

    The majority of American's have been marginalized in favor of the interests of the very rich and powerful. From our shrinking middle class and gross income equality to our foreign wars, everyday Americans have not had a real say. The Citizens United decision puts that disparity on steroids and the upcoming TPP, TTIP, and TISA trade treaties will cement those conditions and cement The United States of America as an oligarchy.


    If by "truly" you mean 100% Socialist, then no, I do not want the US to be a truly socialist country. If you mean shift the balance of our country so that our already Socialist aspects are strengthened and fortified while our reverence toward Capitalism is reduced, then yes, I would like that. I'm sure there was a time in our recent history where this balance was actually struck.
     
  19. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    6,593
    If Princeton and Jimmy Carter are admitting the US is an oligarchy you know its past the tipping point.
     
  20. carlos cadona

    carlos cadona Opinions subject to change

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,500
    Likes Received:
    2,045
    Here is a few things he has to say about immigration.
    "It does not make a lot of sense to me to bring hundreds of thousands of [foreign] workers into this country to work for minimum wage and compete with American kids."

    "Last year, the top 10 employers of H-1B guest workers were all offshore outsourcing companies. These firms are responsible for shipping large numbers of American information technology jobs to India and other countries."
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.