Call the angle on Conor

[MMAudit]

Why would he need a sub? ...

cause nobody thinks he has a ground game .. and its not on the level of rematch quality with khabib..

it's a viable spin that could be used...

submitted a huge 170lbr cowboy.. he is def ready for khabib @ 155

 

[IsNormal]

cause nobody thinks he has a ground game .. and its not on the level of rematch quality with khabib..

it's a viable spin that could be used...

submitted a huge 170lbr cowboy.. he is def ready for khabib @ 155

Ah, so you're saying a sub would just be the used as a sign that his ground game has improved immensely.
OK, I can get that.

My original argument was that even if he gets the sub no one would think he could use it on Khabib, so his primary weapon would still be striking.
But I get it - that sub would be used to argue his bottom game had improved as well, even if he couldn't sub Khabib it would likely mean he could likely get up quicker, etc.

 

[Wise1]

Meh, makes sense to me. He called out Siver too, and not because he was dying to tick off Sherdog and steam roll some bum because he's 'scurred', but because it was good business and was in keeping with the larger picture. Ireland had just beat Germany in soccer/futbol and Conor called him out directly after that match, looking to ignite the Irish base and capitalize in that newly found rivalry. It worked tremendously and was the highest watched FS1 card ever, impeccably situated right after the American football's AFC championship play off game, in Boston (aka "Ireland Number Two"), and right after the New England (former Boston) Patriots won. It was a smashing success and was a perfect promo to introduce mainstream targeted audiences to "The Irish Mohammad Ali", served as a major reason Conor was able to be a prodigal success on both sides of the Atlantic and end up being the largest draw in combat sports history.

Conor's business sense is what makes him such a force, and not only is Cowboy a big name, not only do they have history, and not only is it a great stylistic match up for the fans, but it also serves as a litmus test to gauge where his skills are and get some of that rust off. Let us not forget Dominick Cruz fought Mizugaki after his lay off, and not even he battled the demons Conor did, or flatly stopped training for a year or so. This is far from a gimme, even if it is not the fights every fan wanted to see first. It makes sense any way one looks at it, and one must remind themselves, Conor has a newly minted 6 fight contract.

AFAIK Siver was never Conor’s idea but if you know that for a fact then well, that’s news to me. Up until Cowboy, Conor has always gone after the biggest fish and that’s why I love him. When everyone said he would duck Khabib I was here making bets with those same people that he would indeed face Khabib. He was fearless and gave meaning to the anytime anywhere attitude that gets flaunted around...

The Cowboy picking is understandable, you’ve made a strong argument for it, but it’s still disappointing to me personally. Of course he can always get back on track were he to be victorious and actually RESPOND to Masvidal... I’ll reserve judgement for after the Cowboy fight.

 

[RoJo303]

AFAIK Siver was never Conor’s idea but if you know that for a fact then well, that’s news to me. Up until Cowboy, Conor has always gone after the biggest fish and that’s why I love him. When everyone said he would duck Khabib I was here making bets with those same people that he would indeed face Khabib. He was fearless and gave meaning to the anytime anywhere attitude that gets flaunted around...

The Cowboy picking is understandable, you’ve made a strong argument for it, but it’s still disappointing to me personally. Of course he can always get back on track were he to be victorious and actually RESPOND to Masvidal... I’ll reserve judgement for after the Cowboy fight.

I hear you about that.

People often forget that Conor went to FW because the title was much more prestigious than the LW one ar that time, just as beating Jones is much greater for legacy than beating Miocic. Now, people call him a coward for 'cutting weight and beating on man lets', but the reality is that he wanted to become a two division champ and go after the pound for pound best fighter on the planet.

He has gone after the biggest fish you are right, but he always paved a path to said fish and had timing on his side. After his Holloway victory, he was hurt and needed to garner the hype, have a showcase and a reasonable opponent - hence Cole Miller/Brandao. Conor has not won since Alvarez and his fan base needs to be fed, which is largely why it collapsed and he lacks the star power he once did. To me, it is still much more dangerous than Cole Miller or Dennis Siver, but serves as the same purpose.

RE Siver call out: Yep, he first called him out after the soccer game, but UFC then made it reality as they wanted to show case him to American prime time audience, which they successfully did. Conor had a lot of ideas that UFC was not on board with tho, like fighting Urijah Faber when Duffy got hurt and pulled from the Dublin card, fighting Diego Sanchez at 155 before Poirier, or filling in for a host of other cards that fell apart. He is the most valuable asset to the UFC (sorry Khabib fans, your boy is not even top 5 all time), and as such, they want to promote him properly and maximize their profits.

 

[Craig Owens]

Round 2 Cowboy ko

My foot was a blewn
I have to much money I’m not motivated
Didn’t treat it serious
Tree times the size
Epstein didn’t kill himself

 

[RetiredSlave]

I dont know man, just fade into Bolivian I guess. Yeah, what, what, Im Alexander, hes no conqueror, I want his heart, In going to eat his children. I broke my back, spinal.

 

[Wise1]

I hear you about that.

People often forget that Conor went to FW because the title was much more prestigious than the LW one ar that time, just as beating Jones is much greater for legacy than beating Miocic. Now, people call him a coward for 'cutting weight and beating on man lets', but the reality is that he wanted to become a two division champ and go after the pound for pound best fighter on the planet.

He has gone after the biggest fish you are right, but he always paved a path to said fish and had timing on his side. After his Holloway victory, he was hurt and needed to garner the hype, have a showcase and a reasonable opponent - hence Cole Miller/Brandao. Conor has not won since Alvarez and his fan base needs to be fed, which is largely why it collapsed and he lacks the star power he once did. To me, it is still much more dangerous than Cole Miller or Dennis Siver, but serves as the same purpose.

RE Siver call out: Yep, he first called him out after the soccer game, but UFC then made it reality as they wanted to show case him to American prime time audience, which they successfully did. Conor had a lot of ideas that UFC was not on board with tho, like fighting Urijah Faber when Duffy got hurt and pulled from the Dublin card, fighting Diego Sanchez at 155 before Poirier, or filling in for a host of other cards that fell apart. He is the most valuable asset to the UFC (sorry Khabib fans, your boy is not even top 5 all time), and as such, they want to promote him properly and maximize their profits.

Strongly disagree with you about Khabib though. He is most certainly a top5 all time asset to the UFC and he may even prove to out-value Conor in the near future ... if he hasn’t already.

 

[boladiQup]

1.
after cowboy he goes after Masvidal .. so he will need to win by KO over cowboy

or

2.
after cowtoy he tries to go after khabib again .. so he will have to submit cowtoy (which nobody expects him to do).. that way he can have use submission mma math to skip over everyone and jump back in that huge money fight with khabib

why did you start calling him Cowtoy?

 

[MMAudit]

why did you start calling him Cowtoy?

just seeing if you read the whole thing .. i was being strategic like conor vs. cowtoy

 

[Cold187um]

if he wins he’ll fight Masvidal or Tony if he wins. He wants no more of Khabib, no matter what he says .
If he loses it doesn’t matter because it was at 170.
If he loses by getting knocked out cold he’s done fighting.
If he loses by decision or Herb Dean fukkery we get the Nate Trilogy.

 

[RoJo303]

Strongly disagree with you about Khabib though. He is most certainly a top5 all time asset to the UFC and he may even prove to out-value Conor in the near future ... if he hasn’t already.

While I'd agree that Khabib is one of the larger assets now, I think historically the numbers prove something different. Would you agree with this ranking?

1. Conor
2. Brocktober
3. Ronda
4. GSP
5. I'd give a toss up, between maybe Prime Andy/Chuck/prime Tito/Royce/Jones and Khabib might fit in here somewhere followed by a Diaz type figure, but has not proven to be on the GSP or Ronda level yet.

As far as measuring an 'asset', obviously PPV numbers and ticket sales are a large litmus test, but some one like Chuck really helped elevate the brand to places it had never been, Royce was the first 'asset' that got it off the ground and someone like Andy had massive numbers in his prime. Khabib is still very much a question mark, who did mediocre PPV's vs Al, the Conor PPV was obviously Conor's star (aired with May rub) doing the work and the numbers I heard thru FRB podcast (whom I deem to be fairly solid) on the Khabib Dustin fight were very weak (200-300 K ballpark). Yes, I know it was mid day and in the ESPN+ era, but it is still not a good sign after getting the Conor rub - it seems PPV's have roughly fallen in half with the ESPN deal, so we are talking 5-600K in the old deal, which is very good, but still not near the top four I mentioned. Also, Khabib is like many other undefeated fighters in that if he lost his '0', his brand would greatly take a hit, lacks the resiliency that a star like Conor has - just MHO tho.

 

[Source]

Conor instantly proclaims “the king is back baby!”. He then goes and demands the rat stop running. He lists a bunch of excuses and says because of that he deserves a rematch. All of this while ignoring that he himself has never given anyone that he has beaten a rematch.

 

[Deleted member 429453]

Shocking how Conor has fans

 

[Wise1]

While I'd agree that Khabib is one of the larger assets now, I think historically the numbers prove something different. Would you agree with this ranking?

1. Conor
2. Brocktober
3. Ronda
4. GSP
5. I'd give a toss up, between maybe Prime Andy/Chuck/prime Tito/Royce/Jones and Khabib might fit in here somewhere followed by a Diaz type figure, but has not proven to be on the GSP or Ronda level yet.

As far as measuring an 'asset', obviously PPV numbers and ticket sales are a large litmus test, but some one like Chuck really helped elevate the brand to places it had never been, Royce was the first 'asset' that got it off the ground and someone like Andy had massive numbers in his prime. Khabib is still very much a question mark, who did mediocre PPV's vs Al, the Conor PPV was obviously Conor's star (aired with May rub) doing the work and the numbers I heard thru FRB podcast (whom I deem to be fairly solid) on the Khabib Dustin fight were very weak (200-300 K ballpark). Yes, I know it was mid day and in the ESPN+ era, but it is still not a good sign after getting the Conor rub - it seems PPV's have roughly fallen in half with the ESPN deal, so we are talking 5-600K in the old deal, which is very good, but still not near the top four I mentioned. Also, Khabib is like many other undefeated fighters in that if he lost his '0', his brand would greatly take a hit, lacks the resiliency that a star like Conor has - just MHO tho.

You’re right in that it comes down to numbers but without full disclosure we can never really know. Your ranking is reasonable but I feel like if we had insider information it would reveal some surprises for a lot of people. For example, the ppv #s reported for Khabib vs Dustin are just the espn app sales which exclude the rest of the world. Well, as big as Khabib is in the States, it’s many many times over outside of the States(MiddleEast, Russia, etc) which means other viewing platforms besides espn which we don’t get the results of.

Yes, Chuck and Royce etc were major assets but if we’re talking strictly about drawing power all-time then they’re not even in the conversation for many reasons, the biggest one being how long ago they were relevant vs popularity of the sport as a whole ATT.

 

[Airdack]

Probably Masvidal for the BMF belt if Khabib negotiations go bad.

The thing is I don't think the UFC would have an issue stripping Khabib over it. Khabib's a pain in the ass to work with, can't fight in Vegas, and keeps talking about retiring at 30-0. Which I think his retirement talk is a huge reason the UFC wants to push the rematch and won't be as reasonable with Khabib even though he's got a large foreign following.

 

[RoJo303]

You’re right in that it comes down to numbers but without full disclosure we can never really know. Your ranking is reasonable but I feel like if we had insider information it would reveal some surprises for a lot of people. For example, the ppv #s reported for Khabib vs Dustin are just the espn app sales which exclude the rest of the world. Well, as big as Khabib is in the States, it’s many many times over outside of the States(MiddleEast, Russia, etc) which means other viewing platforms besides espn which we don’t get the results of.

Yes, Chuck and Royce etc were major assets but if we’re talking strictly about drawing power all-time then they’re not even in the conversation for many reasons, the biggest one being how long ago they were relevant vs popularity of the sport as a whole ATT.

I can agree with that. Khabib is big in Russia, however, the PPV market is not set up to really acclimate Russia. America is where the money is, and that is why even huge stars like Fury come here to put on their biggest fights. I am not blindly taking the PPV rumors Ive heard either, but those are the only rumors I have heard outside Khabib's camp, who are notorious for fibbing and trying to make him look like 'the A side'. They said it did something like 1.2 million PPV buys and to me, that is just absurd in this new + era market and the time of day that it was on. Most people just watched it on Youtube at night, did not bother subbing to ESPN+ and then paying the normal $70 PPV price.

To me, in the old market, I can see Khabib doing around 5-600K a PPV. I don't see him as a million plus star yet, where as stars hat ever attained that level of success were cross over stars like Ronda, Brock and Conor. I still don't see that from Khabib outside the MMA and Russian communities. I don't see his fight with Tony being littered with Russians like Conors cards look like Dublin. I could be wrong, but it seems most Khabib fans are Conor haters and not the types to fork over ten thousand dollars to get a plane ticket, hotel and ticket to the event.

 

[RoJo303]

Probably Masvidal for the BMF belt if Khabib negotiations go bad.

The thing is I don't think the UFC would have an issue stripping Khabib over it. Khabib's a pain in the ass to work with, can't fight in Vegas, and keeps talking about retiring at 30-0. Which I think his retirement talk is a huge reason the UFC wants to push the rematch and won't be as reasonable with Khabib even though he's got a large foreign following.

I totally agree. One thing I have noticed about Khabib and his camp is they are all over the place with their words and will actually do the dirty work when it comes time to do it. Remember Khabib said he would not apologize after he started the brawl??? Well, it took ten minutes and he was apologizing.

As far as the dirty work, he always talks about "honor...legacy...do right thing" and then stabbed his buddy Conor and Eddie in the back at UFC 205, which was probably the most shady thing ever done in this sport by a fighter, saying he was fighting Eddie to drive down Eddie and McGregor's pay days and save money for the new owners. Following that, he takes to Twitter to DM Conor and say would humiliate his brand new baby boy son if he did not fight him (WTF?).....then, Khabib starts crying about "family off limit guys" when Conor gives it back to him...WTF?!!? He says "I fight for muh legacy" in one breath then says "I deserve to fight Mayweather for the money" in the next breath. He either has severe CTE from taking shots from bears since he was a baby or is just trolling everyone.

He is definitely a sleazy politician like figure tho, who knows how to manipulate his base; he does not really care about them but says he does, knows how to stump speech to them and get them all riled up, even tho his actions are the opposite of his words. "Conor must earn this fight and beat everyone in top 5 - I changed my mind, I fight him now". They will blindly support him no matter, and they're the same people that criticized Conor for fighting Floyd but would be OK if Khabib fought Floyd. The whole thing is just so very bizarre, but I think UFC knows they can trust him from his previous actions above his words he says to give his fans hard ons.