Economy California Democrats escalate their housing crisis... Pass Bill to handout up to $150,000 for 1st time buyers for Illegal Immigrants

[Islam Imamate]

Maybe California shouldn't make it a complete shit show to build anything... literally anything. Instead of buying votes by handing out free money

Business

Contractors wrestle with lengthy permit process amid housing crisis​

Contractors wrestle with lengthy permit process amid housing crisis

Despite calls to build more homes to solve the Bay Area's housing woes, the rate of building permits for new homes has slowed considerably, worsening the crisis.

www.cbsnews.com

Despite calls to build more homes to solve the Bay Area's housing woes, the rate of building permits for new homes has slowed considerably, worsening the crisis.

Work comes to a grinding halt for designer and contractor Tim Pond when building permits aren't issued in a timely manner.


By the way... Gavin Newsom is already showing signs he's done with the California shit show



Anyone who isn't a far left California lunatic politician knew this bill was fucking retarded

Part of the reason its a shitshow to build anything is because of NIMBYs like @RoastBeast who are empowered by California law to obstruct contraction projects via community meetings and environmental review standards where anything as much potential noise complaints from children playing in playgrounds is used to block new housing.

 

[RoastBeast]

And there's a difference between a low income person from the working class that has low earning potential across their lifetime and someone who is young and from the middle class who is low income in the beginning of their career but has overall strong lifetime earnings. Those middle class young people need flexible, smaller housing and are far less likely to commit to mortgage and that's where smaller multifamily units come in.

Yes so build smaller multifamily units in lower income areas so they can have a place to live and save up money to move to safer areas. You don't turn safer areas into bad areas to make this happen. Not only is it not as effective when it comes to helping the market but it also devalues other people's investments.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yes so build smaller multifamily units in lower income areas so they can have a place to live and save up money to move to safer areas. You don't turn safer areas into bad areas to make this happen. Not only is it not as effective when it comes to helping the market but it also devalues other people's investments.

The most dense parts of any metro area are the most, not least, valuable land you can find. Adding density to suburbs can increase home values. Not to mention its absurd to think some high end multiplexes are going to bring the dregs of society, be serious.

 

[RoastBeast]

The most dense parts of any metro area are the most, not least, valuable land you can find. Adding density to suburbs can increase home values. Not to mention its absurd to think some high end multiplexes are going to bring the dregs of society, be serious.

Yeah you don't buy a lot of land downtown where it's expensive. You buy it in the cheap/poor areas of town where property is at it's cheapest and you can build more for less. I don't know why I keep having to say this over and over. Like I said, I'm going to bow out because this is as redundant as it gets.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah you don't buy a lot of land downtown where it's expensive. You buy it in the cheap/poor areas of town where property is at it's cheapest and you can build more for less. I don't know why I keep having to say this over and over. Like I said, I'm going to bow out because this is as redundant as it gets.

75%-90% of residential land in most US cities is zoned exclusively for single family homes, that has to change if cities want to be serious about dealing with the housing crisis. You can't devote the vast majority of your residential land towards the least dense and more inefficient form of housing and expect things to remain affordable over time for aspiring renters/homeowners and the city alike.

 

[Scerpi]

Part of the reason its a shitshow to build anything is because of NIMBYs like @RoastBeast who are empowered by California law to obstruct contraction projects via community meetings and environmental review standards where anything as much potential noise complaints from children playing in playgrounds is used to block new housing.

@Roastbeef is responsible for the insane building codes in California?

lol... dude

 

[Islam Imamate]

@Roastbeef is responsible for the insane building codes in California?

lol... dude

Obviously not just one guy, be serious here.

I mean NIMBYs like him in general. You said you have an ADU right? Imagine if your neighbor did everything they could to stop you from being able to build that so you could move your MIL in. That's the kind of neighbor RoastBeast is and its that kind of neighbor who is in part responsible for the housing crisis across the country.

 

[RoastBeast]

75%-90% of residential land in most US cities is zoned exclusively for single family homes, that has to change if cities want to be serious about dealing with the housing crisis. You can't devote the vast majority of your residential land towards the least dense and more inefficient form of housing and expect things to remain affordable over time for aspiring renters/homeowners and the city alike.

Not only is multiplex housing in the suburbs a devaluation to everyone else in the suburbs, but it's also not very helpful at all for aspiring homeowners. If you don't have enough money to buy a home and need to save, it doesn't make sense to pay a higher rent to live in the suburbs when you can pay a much lower rent and live in a worse area. You save money quicker and then you can afford a nice single family home in the suburbs. It's like driving a BMW while complaining that you can't afford a home. Smart people eat the shit sandwich to save money and then use that sacrifice to be able to move into a safe area.

The poor areas in most cities used to be the nice suburbs decades ago. What you're attempting to do is basically jump start that transition while inefficiently attempting to help the housing market by trying to fix a problem that hardly exists. We already went over all that so I'm not going to repeat it again.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Not only is multiplex housing in the suburbs a devaluation to everyone else in the suburbs, but it's also not very helpful at all for aspiring homeowners. If you don't have enough money to buy a home and need to save, it doesn't make sense to pay a higher rent to live in the suburbs when you can pay a much lower rent and live in a worse area. You save money quicker and then you can afford a nice single family home in the suburbs. It's like driving a BMW while complaining that you can't afford a home. Smart people eat the shit sandwich to save money and then use that sacrifice to be able to move into a safe area.

The poor areas in most cities used to be the nice suburbs decades ago. What you're attempting to do is basically jump start that transition while inefficiently attempting to help the housing market by trying to fix a problem that hardly exists. We already went over all that so I'm not going to repeat it again.

Expanding access to housing across the residential market helps make the labor market more efficient because it allows workers to more easily move for jobs or closer to their existing one. It can make perfect sense to rent out a small but nice apartment if its closer to your job and cuts the commute down significantly.

Your approach necessarily means that young people have to live in the outskirts where there's fewer opportunity and which generates more traffic.

 

[RoastBeast]

Expanding access to housing across the residential market helps make the labor market more efficient because it allows workers to more easily move for jobs or closer to their existing one. It can make perfect sense to rent out a small but nice apartment if its closer to your job and cuts the commute down significantly.

Your approach necessarily means that young people have to live in the outskirts where there's fewer opportunity and which generates more traffic.

No my approach means young people actually live closer to where the better jobs are normally at because the poor areas of town are not on the outskirts. They're in between downtown and the suburbs because the suburbs almost always push outward, away from the city center. You're the one who is actually advocating for them to live further away from the better jobs.

You're still grasping at straws here. You're just wildly biased against people who don't want to devalue their own homes as charity for other people.

 

[Islam Imamate]

No my approach means young people actually live closer to where the better jobs are normally at because the poor areas of town are not on the outskirts. They're in between downtown and the suburbs because the suburbs almost always push outward, away from the city center. You're the one who is actually advocating for them to live further away from the better jobs.

The cheap land is on the outskirts, downtown lots are far more valuable.

You're still grasping at straws here. You're just wildly biased against people who don't want to devalue their own homes as charity for other people.

Never said anything about charity, in fact those homeowners can profit off of the demand for housing by adding units and renting them out.

 

[RoastBeast]

The cheap land is on the outskirts, downtown lots are far more valuable.

Never said anything about charity, in fact those homeowners can profit off of the demand for housing by adding units and renting them out.

Homeowners do not save up their money and move to the suburbs so they can live in a multiplex. I just don't know what to tell you. This fantasy you have is just that, a fantasy. I don't know if you have dreams of living in the suburbs and can't afford it or what but nothing you're saying makes much sense other than the fact that it would start an erosion of the suburbs with the quickness.

I've refuted everything you've said and have even come up with better plans that are cheaper and more efficient. There really isn't much more to say here.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Homeowners do not save up their money and move to the suburbs so they can live in a multiplex. I just don't know what to tell you. This fantasy you have is just that, a fantasy. I don't know if you have dreams of living in the suburbs and can't afford it or what but nothing you're saying makes much sense other than the fact that it would start an erosion of the suburbs with the quickness

The most important factor in deciding to move is location, hence the old line from real estate agents that the three most important factors are location, location, location. People will make sacrifices in terms of their preferences for homes if the location is desirable for one reason or another, usually proximity to work and school.

Maximizing the number and variation in housing units maximizes the flexibility workers have in choosing the appropriately located housing unit.

I've refuted everything you've said and have even come up with better plans that are cheaper and more efficient. There really isn't much more to say here.

You haven't refuted anything though, most of your talking points are disconnected from reality.

 

[RoastBeast]

The most important factor in deciding to move is location, hence the old line from real estate agents that the three most important factors are location, location, location. People will make sacrifices in terms of their preferences for homes if the location is desirable for one reason or another, usually proximity to work and school.

Maximizing the number and variation in housing units maximizes the flexibility workers have in choosing the appropriately located housing unit.

You haven't refuted anything though, most of your talking points are disconnected from reality.

If you are in a position where you are priced out of the market, you don't get to be very picky about location. That's the part about eating a shit sandwich. You do it to save money so you can get what you want in the long run. The whole point is cheaper housing so people can afford a place to live.

Funny that you think I'm disconnected from reality when you were just attempting to refute that poor people don't commit more property crimes and petty theft than middle class people just a few posts ago. You also think that regular old homeowners are going to up and turn their suburban home into a multiplex and live there with other random strangers.

But yeah...I'm disconnected from reality.

 

[Islam Imamate]

If you are in a position where you are priced out of the market, you don't get to be very picky about location. That's the part about eating a shit sandwich. You do it to save money so you can get what you want in the long run. The whole point is cheaper housing so people can afford a place to live.

And the point of allowing more housing across the metro areas is to allow people to be more picky about location which creates a more efficient labor market.

Funny that you think I'm disconnected from reality when you were just attempting to refute that poor people don't commit more property crimes and petty theft than middle class people just a few posts ago.

I never said that though, I merely pointed out to you that those from the middle class are low income in the early part of their career and they are the ones you are hurting by blocking housing.

You also think that regular old homeowners are going to up and turn their suburban home into a multiplex and live there with other random strangers.

I know someone who did this but because of local zoning laws they got fined until they were forced to tear down their ADU. My friend's neighbor wanted to build an ADU on his single family lot to house his aging mother but because of local zoning laws he wasn't able to and she died before she could move in with him. I know people first and secondhand who are impacted by these laws.

But yeah...I'm disconnected from reality.

Yes.

 

[Scerpi]

Obviously not just one guy, be serious here.

I mean NIMBYs like him in general. You said you have an ADU right? Imagine if your neighbor did everything they could to stop you from being able to build that so you could move your MIL in. That's the kind of neighbor RoastBeast is and its that kind of neighbor who is in part responsible for the housing crisis across the country.

That's every HOA in existence.

And some ADU's are god awful and some look like they were part of the original plan.

And if Roastbeef feels like tha (or anyone else). Then live in a HOA neighborhood. Every house has the same standards, same fencing, approved paint colors only, no RV's or boats in the driveway, no sheds taller than X or X closer the fence... blah, blah, blah. There's tons of HOA's in the Houston Metro Area and most of the new developments have them.

However, when you don't have an HOA, there's a chance a house on your block will turn completely ghetto/redneck (either works).

Happened to me... Family of 9 moved into a 3 bedroom house rental. Trashed the place, inside and the front yard. Bikes, toys and random shit left in their front yard. Rarely mowed their yard... blah, blah, blah. Just a total eyesore until they got evicted.

However, the no HOA means you can go almost anything you want, like build an ADU. Or or giant workshop (One guy did 2 houses down) in your backyard.

So you have to take the freedom with the good and the bad.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's every HOA in existence.

Sure but its also true of neighborhoods outside HOAs and its NIMBYs like RoastBeast that create those conditions outside HOAs.

And some ADU's are god awful and some look like they were part of the original plan.

And if Roastbeef feels like tha (or anyone else). Then live in a HOA neighborhood. Every house has the same standards, same fencing, approved paint colors only, no RV's or boats in the driveway, no sheds taller than X or X closer the fence... blah, blah, blah. There's tons of HOA's in the Houston Metro Area and most of the new developments have them.

However, when you don't have an HOA, there's a chance a house on your block will turn completely ghetto/redneck (either works).

Happened to me... Family of 9 moved into a 3 bedroom house rental. Trashed the place, inside and the front yard. Bikes, toys and random shit left in their front yard. Rarely mowed their yard... blah, blah, blah. Just a total eyesore until they got evicted.

However, the no HOA means you can go almost anything you want, like build an ADU. Or or giant workshop (One guy did 2 houses down) in your backyard.

So you have to take the freedom with the good and the bad.

Right exactly. Something sort of similar happened in the neighborhood of my parents house. Its not nice to have rowdy neighbors who throw parties and maybe sell drugs but its hardly the end of the world and their home value still went up over the years so I don't think the influence on home prices is anywhere near what NIMBYs say if it exists at all.

At the end of the day people need to be allowed to manage their properties in ways that might not leave every neighbor happy but which are reasonable exercises in property rights.

 

[RoastBeast]

That's every HOA in existence.

And some ADU's are god awful and some look like they were part of the original plan.

And if Roastbeef feels like tha (or anyone else). Then live in a HOA neighborhood. Every house has the same standards, same fencing, approved paint colors only, no RV's or boats in the driveway, no sheds taller than X or X closer the fence... blah, blah, blah. There's tons of HOA's in the Houston Metro Area and most of the new developments have them.

However, when you don't have an HOA, there's a chance a house on your block will turn completely ghetto/redneck (either works).

Happened to me... Family of 9 moved into a 3 bedroom house rental. Trashed the place, inside and the front yard. Bikes, toys and random shit left in their front yard. Rarely mowed their yard... blah, blah, blah. Just a total eyesore until they got evicted.

However, the no HOA means you can go almost anything you want, like build an ADU. Or or giant workshop (One guy did 2 houses down) in your backyard.

So you have to take the freedom with the good and the bad.

We're all on 1 acre lots in my neighborhood and my neighbor had a really nice house and shop built in his backyard for this father in law. Wife left him a month after it was all built and the property just got sold to some investors. They're renting both units out. The renters in one are fine and the other has seemingly 10 people living in a 3bd house. They're annoying and have cars parked everywhere, but what can ya do? It's legal to build ADUs here as long as you follow county code.

I'm just laughing at Islam thinking that I have anything to do with the county code. Like it's me personally that gets to decide property lines, setbacks, coverage, floor space, zoning etc. All I'm going to do is voice my opinion on not wanting an apartment complex built across the street where the nature preserve is because I don't want my property devalued and my shit broken into. I moved out of the bad area and into my area for a reason and it wasn't to bring the bad with me.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Adding density to suburbs can increase home values.

There's more to a home than the property value.

 

[Islam Imamate]

There's more to a home than the property value.

Sure but if the argument is that density reduces property values then pointing out that's not true is relevant.

But yes property value is not everything. People like @Scerpi might not ever renovate their SFH into something like a four unit multiplex even if allowed and despite the fact that it might add a lot of value. Instead many will settle for adding one ADU to allow an elderly parent or adult child move back in and that's perfectly fine. What I don't think is fine is telling homeowners that they can't renovate their properties as they see fit whether or not they actually want to.