cain's top control

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by aizen00, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. aizen00

    aizen00 Green Belt

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    I was wondering why cain doesn't put his hooks in, or wraps his legs around his opponent? He has good top control and GandP, but against an opponent like JDS he could of prevented him from getting back up. he could of even finished JDS like hughes finished royce.
    what are everyone's thoughts?
     
  2. trendkill101

    trendkill101 Green Belt

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    Sonnen is usually the same way, I'd imagine they are just so comfortable in scramble situations that they are confident they can control their opponent better without the hooks in.
     
  3. HC Daniel

    HC Daniel Blue Belt

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    He has poor top control and he doesnt like to use Jiujitsu.
     
  4. Calvin42

    Calvin42 Silver Belt

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    some wrestler prefer not to so they don't have to worry about a guy rolling for a leg
     
  5. AldoGenkiSudo

    AldoGenkiSudo Blue Belt

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    The answer is likely coupled with his aggression when he fights and his wrestling background.
     
  6. Persuadertron

    Persuadertron naw son

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    From what I see in Cain fights when he is on top.....

    Get hurt opponent, get hurt. No I wont go for submissions, get hurt. Hurt some more. Oh,you are bleeding?GET HURT, HURT! Now I blocked you're attempt getting up..AND NOW GET HURT!!!

    Cain's gamplan in a nutshell. How'd I do?
     
  7. bigseanc88

    bigseanc88 Orange Belt

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    Cool story brah
     
  8. aizen00

    aizen00 Green Belt

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    I thought that too, but against someone like JDS who is known to get back up he should use hooks.
     
  9. 0vary hugger**

    0vary hugger** Banned Banned

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    He didn't want to risk JDS's BJJ imo.Which is why he controlled him without the hooks and just lay on him and GNP'd.

    Good strategy,we dont know what JDS's BJJ is like.
     
  10. extreme123

    extreme123 Blue Belt

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    cain is not like fitch or gsp, as soon as he gets you down he pounds you right away. gsp and fitch will kill a whole round working for top control, thats why the never finish fights. cain start beating you right away and finishes you, he only gots to fights the went the distance
     
  11. Omni**

    Omni** Brown Belt

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    he doesnt train or know juijitsu
     
  12. Persuadertron

    Persuadertron naw son

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    Thanks bra! I worked on that piece fo for bout'...3 minutes bra,glad you like it.!

    I am a non-fiction artist. Give me your interpretatation. What I typedis average but needs some work.
     
  13. fight4ippon

    fight4ippon Brown Belt

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    He has Jiu Jitsu advice from his grappling trainer but prefers to smother opponent in a wrestling fashing as stated above ^^^^ also it seems he likes to punch from side control so he has enough room to punch big.
     
  14. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

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    He likes to ground and pound.
     
  15. CosmicOsmo

    CosmicOsmo Brown Belt

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    I obviously can't know what he's thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of his strategy to play to his cardio advantage. With a looser top control, he forces/allows his opponent to expend energy scrambling up, after which he's just going to make them expend more energy defending another takedown, and then scramble up from that one, again and again, rinse and repeat until his opponent is spent.

    JDS was successful in fighting off takedowns and getting back to his feet for the most part in the first round, but how long can you keep that up against constant pressure before you just fold? For JDS, it was basically one round.

    Compare this to what would happen if he employed perfect, ideal BJJ ground control principles. Well, he'd get one takedown, hold the guy down, maybe advance to a dominant position, hold that position...ok that's great and all, but such a BJJ attack necessarily slows the pace down. If the opponent makes it to the second round, he's still going to be relatively fresh, and ready to try to knock your block off again when the bell rings. The kind of pace Cain is known for setting is only possible with imperfect ground control...if he took people down once and they couldn't get back up again, his fights would look like GSP fights.
     
  16. techninja

    techninja Blue Belt

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    Yeah I agree. In addition, the game plan was to fatigue JDS, allowing him to get back to his feet, to then re shoot or drag him against the cage all contributed to this. He didn't want to get into a BJJ game where he could risk being swept or countered, he stuck to his strong suit.
     
  17. BROWNPRIDE

    BROWNPRIDE Red Belt

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    it what great wrestlers do
     
  18. jeremyemilio

    jeremyemilio Silver Belt

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    Two part answer:

    A. He comes from a folkstyle wrestling background which is a ruleset that rewards a wrestler for 'riding time.'

    B. He wrestled at heavyweight in Div I NCAA, meaning that he was outweighed and outpowered by his opponents in a much more dramatic way than he typically is in an MMA fight, and due to this he developed a style where he smply avoids getting tangled up with bigger guys who can overpower him. He likes being in a position to scramble or just pull clear if things start to go south.

    (Also why he has developed such a great single leg takedown, btw. No way a guy like Cain survives Div I NCAA tourneys shooting doubles on monsters with a 50-60 lb weight advantage ove him.)

    It's served him well against guys like Brock, and even Congo, and has the potential to serve him well against a guy like Reem.

    Haing said all of this, though, Junior is not that much bigger than Cain, and a hurt, tired JDS certainly isn't much stronger than him, so yeah... should have sunk in the hooks, secured the RNC, and finished the fight. But some habits are hard to break.
     
  19. MCS

    MCS Gold Belt

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    He risks losing position to land strikes. He has a high punch output on the ground, but his top control is enough - even when constantly striking - for pretty much everyone he's fought. Cain's agility helps him with this. JDS is good at escapes.

    As for the hooks, and I'm guessing here, but I'd say it's because he wants to get space for those punches, since he usually passes to the side or takes someone's back - he isn't much of a guard player like f.e. Fitch. The one time he did that was against Bigfoot, and he used/mixed in elbows to avoid getting triangled or armbarred.
     
  20. MCS

    MCS Gold Belt

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    hmm. Good answers from jeremyemilio and CosmicOsmo.
     

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