Cain "Can't Do That Against Overeem"?

[johndhi]

I'm watching a nice video on Daniel Cormier's prep for tonight (see it here, recommended: http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/1/11/3865788/fight-journal-daniel-cormier)

at 4:15 in the video, Cormier is talking about how Cain had just attempted a few takedowns on JDS, then when JDS was tired, he cracked JDS with an overhand right. I'm not sure how to embed because it isn't youtube, but here goes:

<script src="http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.js#ec=k3ZjFiODo3MVNzXPpCI_uOWwy4KvAaHg&pbid=df56043a8061451d89897bbd6ee37d9a"></script>

immediately afterward, someone, I think KJ Noons, says "you can't do that against Overeem, though"

any idea what he means by that? do you agree with it? is he saying Overeem's boxing defense is superior to JDS? I can't imagine. Is it that Overeem has superior cardio to JDS, so he won't be tired by then? I can't imagine. Is it that Overeem would punish him for throwing that punch? I don't quite get it.

 

[countswagula]

He can't do that to Overeem because he won't be able to defend the takedowns in the first place.

 

[The Taxman]

I think he means Reem is a better striker defensively. But IDK. Here let me call KJ and ask him

 

[That209]

When Overeem gasses bad, he gets finished. Just like the same thing with JDS, if Overeem can't land a big shot, he's going to get worked and he'll lose to Cain, possibly finished.

And we don't know about Alistair's defense on the feet, it IS good, but K1 hasn't proved much because those big gloves definitely help block your face. We'll see what happens though, I think Cain would beat him.

 

[BPA00]

If Cain attempts a takedown against the Reem, he will eat an Uberknee... and the fight will be over. I think that is what he meant.

 

[KaraKara]

Maybe because Overeem is a K1 world champion and JDS is a brazillian backyard amateur boxer?

 

[johndhi]

some silly responses so far, guess I shouldn't have expected much. if you actually watch the video you see it's guys who are friends with DC at the table, and guys who also train with Cain, so they likely aren't saying Overeem would tool Cain. I wasn't aware Reem was widely known for his ability to defend the overhand right, though.

 

[n0thinglasts]

He can't do that to Overeem because he won't be able to defend the takedowns in the first place.

Have to go with this.

 

[countswagula]

Maybe because Overeem is a K1 world champion and JDS is a brazillian backyard amateur boxer?

A K1 world champion who, unlike Junior, has been knocked out twice with overhand rights?

 

[insomniatric]

It's because of the threat of being kneed. Cain kept pushing forward for a takedown on JDS without protecting his chin, instead of capitalizing on it (planting himself and catching him since he was wide open), Junior pulled back and tried to counter but had no power.

If he does that on Overeem, there's a good chance he will eat a big knee.

Also, I don't think Overeem's striking defense is better than JDS's.

Overeem has slow head movement and relies on blocking too much (which works with huge gloves but not 4 oz), Brock Lesnar cut him open with a jab and Werdum was able to tag him.

JDS has better head movement, here's an example:

Just look at how he slipped Yvel's 1-2 and countered with a straight right to the body. Yvel tried to come across with the hook but got blasted with JDS's left hook.

 

[method115]

When Overeem gasses bad, he gets finished. Just like the same thing with JDS, if Overeem can't land a big shot, he's going to get worked and he'll lose to Cain, possibly finished.

And we don't know about Alistair's defense on the feet, it IS good, but K1 hasn't proved much because those big gloves definitely help block your face. We'll see what happens though, I think Cain would beat him.

I think cain has a strong chance but the difference is I think Reem is going to go to the ground with Cain. JDS had plenty of chances to get on top of Cain but he decided to just stand instead. Reem wont do that, if Cain goes for sloppy TD's He'll end up on the bottom with Reem on top.

The other problem is how much stronger JDS was then Cain. A lot of times JDS wasn't even using technique to get up he was just throwing Cain off of him. I can't imagine what Reem will be able to do.

 

[redbrownhaze]

Cain will be facing Knee's, liver kicks and nasty Overeem Weaponry.

Dos Santos was on the run before he even got rocked, he was only worried about the take down.

I think Overeem is a completely different animal and has more weapons and a better strategy. Cain will have to eat some blows but even may struggle if he gets Overeem in a clinch or to the ground. He's probably the strongest HW out there and has tossed people around like ragdolls.

There is no question Cain has insane Cardio but can he defend against the firepower. Were talking top of the food chain power from the hands and knee's and a gorilla clinch. It only takes one blow and Overeems striking defense and movement are pretty sick. He knows how to set guys up with footwork from both sides.

 

[Jay Jay]

If Overeem sprawls a takedown, he makes you pay for that failed attempt with a headlock and a trasition to a guillitone or Uber Knees to the face or solar plexus

You can't recklessly shoot at Overeem like a video game. There are consequences for failing a TD attempt vs Overeem whereas Junior just moved away every time he defended a TD

 

[Motofantomx]

I think Brock gives us the best perspective on how Alistair will handle the Cain fight, even if Cain is a very different animal from Lesnar. Alistair, faced with an aggressive wrestler that wanted to bring the pressure, kept his hands low to defend the takedowns, which he did valiantly, though he also ate a few punches for his troubles. This is very similar to how JDS kept his hands low to defend the TD, only to get hit in the face by the wrestler.

The primary difference I see is that Alistair brings a payload of kicks and knees that make him very dangerous in the clinch and at length. He doesn't play the fencing with fists in and out game JDS does. This is what I'm most intrigued to see: how a different style of striker on the same level of JDS deals with the same problem. Can't wait for the Reem to take out Bigfoot (knock on wood) and then set this fight up.

 

[mkt]

Maybe because Overeem is a K1 world champion and JDS is a brazillian backyard amateur boxer?

So, a K-1 champ goes 1-1 with Werdum and is never able to finish him. A Brazillian backyard boxer KO's Werdum in the 1st round. Then sign me up from them Brazilian Backyard Boxing classes, cupcake.

 

[DoomsdayKillz]

Cain will ground overeem within 60 seconds and tko him shortly after with elbows. Overeem doesnt have jds' tdd or speed

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Overeem won't gas himself out by trying to defend the takedown. He'll try to counter with knees, guillotine or work his BJJ.

JDS' sole strategy was to keep it standing and knock Cain out. He did great for about 3 minutes and then couldn't keep up.

 

[ResidualRevenge]

So, a K-1 champ goes 1-1 with Werdum and is never able to finish him. A Brazillian backyard boxer KO's Werdum in the 1st round. Then sign me up from them Brazilian Backyard Boxing classes, cupcake.

There's no backyard boxing with JDS you goof that guy does round after round with international boxing champions and contenders. Kimbo is a backyard boxer JDS is a professional.

 

[moreorless87]

Cain will ground overeem within 60 seconds and tko him shortly after with elbows. Overeem doesnt have jds' tdd or speed

I'm amazed people still think this, personally I think its been pretty clear Overeem is a strong wrestler for years but after Lesnar and Werdum how can anyone think he's lacking in TD defence?

Personally I think if he fights Overeem Cain might be best of reversing tactics and keep his distance for 1-2 rounds hoping Allistair slows down.

 

[mkt]

If Overeem sprawls a takedown, he makes you pay for that failed attempt with a headlock and a trasition to a guillitone or Uber Knees to the face or solar plexus

You can't recklessly shoot at Overeem like a video game. There are consequences for failing a TD attempt vs Overeem whereas Junior just moved away every time he defended a TD

Based on what? When's the last time Overeem fought an elite MMA HW who was also an elite college wrestler? He didn't hurt Brock Werdum during or immediately after their TD attempts.

Or are you basing Overeem's superhuman skills on his fights with guys like Tony Sylvester, James Thompson and ancient versions of Fujita and Goodridge?