Caffeine/Coffee

[Ian Coe]

not to join in this little tit for tat thing that you've got going on, but

Rat liver mitochondria are irradiated with 60Co g -rays and the activity of superoxide dismutase (SOD), an enzyme that breaks down superoxide is monitored. Their result establishes that radiation-induced loss of SOD activity is prevented by high concentrations of caffeine. These authors had earlier reported the action of caffeine as a radioprotectant (J. Radiol. Protection, 1991, 19, 171), in a study that promoted an estimate that 100 cups of coffee might be necessary to protect a 70 kg individual against similar radiation exposure (New Scientist, 1999, 26 June, p. 12)!

There are many mechanisms involved in radiation damaging cells, free radicals being one. But siting a reference for radiation protection to try and back up caffine as a potent free radical agent is poor to say the least


edit-just read your above response which wasn't there when I made this reply.
I see what your getting at now. Basically the radiation was the thing they used to speed up the free radical effect (ie artifically increasing the oxidation) of the rat liver tissues and so shortening the time span of the study by increasing the rate of deterioration.

Kinda makes sense, I can't argue with the study, I guess they had their reasons for using radiation (time frame being the only one I can think of)

 

[Chad Hamilton]

No no. I can control the shitting (which is xtacy with a joint), I just don't know why my ass sweats so much. Only after coffee though.

 

[paulchu]

they incited radiation to reproduce the effects of oxidation... >.>

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/jul25/articles23.htm

 

[Ian Coe]

To my knowledge they aren't one in the same though are they. They both occur during the same bio chemical processes, true. I'm well rusty on this subject matter though.

My assumption was that given the normal time frames needed under natural circumstances they incited the radiation to speed the process up. They got the free radical production which lead to artifically higher oxidation rates, but at the same time other unforseen chemical effects would occur.



I think I'm going off topic now and just nit picking



edit
btw, did you edit?


and I'll get to read that article tomorrow, need to get to bed now

 

[Madmick]

and yes, raising someone's body temperature does make them sick. its called hyperthermia.

Deliberately misinterpreting metaphors is an admission of defeat in scientific debate.

Stop while you're behind. Because next stop is WAY behind.

 

[paulchu]

you're kidding me, right? a body has something called homeostasis... if any of the variable factors are skewed one way or another, one gets sick. how is that misinterpreting a metaphor? same thing for caffeine, same thing for cortisol, and same thing for body heat.

 

[Terumo]

you're kidding me, right? a body has something called homeostasis... if any of the variable factors are skewed one way or another, one gets sick. how is that misinterpreting a metaphor? same thing for caffeine, same thing for cortisol, and same thing for body heat.

Alright, I'm really just beginning to get tired of this thread.

Yes, the body does attempt to maintain some degree of homeostasis. However, beyond homeostasis is the prevalent force of entropy. Everytime you eat, drink, run, walk, exercise, or consume drugs, you are, in fact, increasing the entropic balance within the body. Entropy goes up; "homeostasis" consequently goes down.

[Note: Homeostasis is simply a theory, a means of explaining a very complicated series of metabolic reactions within the body. It is not used in the scientific community as a quantifiable term.]

So, whenever I eat dinner, I am directly increasing internal entropy in my body and causing overal homeostasis to go down. By your logic, this means that I am sick. This is a ridiculous assertion. By that same logic, you assert that increasing body heat makes one sick. If I run a five-minute mile in 100 degree weather, My body temperature will likely be 100+. Does that mean that I am sick? No. You are using symptoms of illness as a means of defining illness.

If I take 5g of creatine monohydrate daily, my urine-creatinine levels will skyrocket. Increased creatinine output is a sign of renal failure. Does that mean that my kidneys are failing? No. It means that the symptom is being kicked-up by some exogenous factor. You are that exact line of thought to explain cortisol. If I inject creatinine into my body, it will not affect my kidneys. If I inject liver enzymes into my body, it won't mean that I have cirrhosis. If I drink bloody urine, that doesn't mean that I have a urinary tract infection. Likewise, as has been stated several times, if I inject myself with a corticosteroid, it will not cause me to be stressed.

Maybe you are just trolling, I don't know. However, this post is simply becoming ridiculous. Your logic is flawed, you are arguing an issue in which you are clearly not educated, and you are hostile to those who try to correct you. Back out now, while there is some redeeming grace.

I'll leave you with this link, courteousy of Rkjd. I think it is rather applicable.
www.venganza.org

 

[bacon]

About 10 minutes into my first cup, I gotta shit and my ass sweats, gettin my fresh undies damp.

Why paulchu, does my body act this way?

LOL I have a cup of coffee AND an apple every morning around 9am. Talk about stayin regular

 

[Madmick]

Alright, I'm really just beginning to get tired of this thread.

Yes, the body does attempt to maintain some degree of homeostasis. However, beyond homeostasis is the prevalent force of entropy. Everytime you eat, drink, run, walk, exercise, or consume drugs, you are, in fact, increasing the entropic balance within the body. Entropy goes up; "homeostasis" consequently goes down.

[Note: Homeostasis is simply a theory, a means of explaining a very complicated series of metabolic reactions within the body. It is not used in the scientific community as a quantifiable term.]

So, whenever I eat dinner, I am directly increasing internal entropy in my body and causing overal homeostasis to go down. By your logic, this means that I am sick. This is a ridiculous assertion. By that same logic, you assert that increasing body heat makes one sick. If I run a five-minute mile in 100 degree weather, My body temperature will likely be 100+. Does that mean that I am sick? No. You are using symptoms of illness as a means of defining illness.

If I take 5g of creatine monohydrate daily, my urine-creatinine levels will skyrocket. Increased creatinine output is a sign of renal failure. Does that mean that my kidneys are failing? No. It means that the symptom is being kicked-up by some exogenous factor. You are that exact line of thought to explain cortisol. If I inject creatinine into my body, it will not affect my kidneys. If I inject liver enzymes into my body, it won't mean that I have cirrhosis. If I drink bloody urine, that doesn't mean that I have a urinary tract infection. Likewise, as has been stated several times, if I inject myself with a corticosteroid, it will not cause me to be stressed.

Maybe you are just trolling, I don't know. However, this post is simply becoming ridiculous. Your logic is flawed, you are arguing an issue in which you are clearly not educated, and you are hostile to those who try to correct you. Back out now, while there is some redeeming grace.

I'll leave you with this link, courteousy of Rkjd. I think it is rather applicable.
www.venganza.org

I guess we bypassed "way behind" in favor of OUTRIGHT ASSRAPING.

That boy is wicked smart.

 

[farmboy]

No no. I can control the shitting (which is xtacy with a joint), I just don't know why my ass sweats so much. Only after coffee though.

Be thankful that it's only after drinking coffee. I have that problem on a constant basis!

 

[black_samurai**]

What about black and green teas are they as bad as coffee they taste way better

 

[Valgarv]

Hey, just thought I'd put this out for all you sweaty ass people out there... Please. Do us all the favor and wipe your ass sweat up off the freggin toilet seats. That shit dries up on there and then when the next guy comes around man that's just not cool.

 

[Wrassler]

I'm not trying to be argumentative... i'm a bit cornfused.

So, whenever I eat dinner, I am directly increasing internal entropy in my body and causing overal homeostasis to go down. By your logic, this means that I am sick. This is a ridiculous assertion. By that same logic, you assert that increasing body heat makes one sick. If I run a five-minute mile in 100 degree weather, My body temperature will likely be 100+. Does that mean that I am sick? No. You are using symptoms of illness as a means of defining illness.

but it can make you sick... heatstroke and such. Entropy can cause sickness... is this semantics or am I missing something.

If I take 5g of creatine monohydrate daily, my urine-creatinine levels will skyrocket. Increased creatinine output is a sign of renal failure. Does that mean that my kidneys are failing? No. It means that the symptom is being kicked-up by some exogenous factor. You are that exact line of thought to explain cortisol. If I inject creatinine into my body, it will not affect my kidneys.

But, won't your kidneys produce lower levels of creatine? There are some checks & balances used in maintaining homeostasis. When the kidneys 'see' that there is declining creatine in the bloodstream they release more. How long before the kidneys shut down creatine production entirely? This is why people cycle steroids, correct?

I assume the same is true with cortisol. Won't the injection of cortisol result in a second spike? Doesn't the body also get some cues on emotional status from physiological signals?

Also, there is an adrenal affect with sugary coffee; making your body go on alert leaving you jittery and on edge. I believe there is a secondary result in the production of cortisol at that point.

wrassler.


ps. caffiene is caffiene guys... green tea, black tea, blue tea, whatever. Tea is better for you than coffee, cuz there are anti-oxidants. It's even better with honey, good stuff in honey too.

 

[farmboy]

What about black and green teas are they as bad as coffee they taste way better

I'd probably be better off drinking green tea, and as a matter of fact I did for a while, but I disagree about the taste issue. I love the taste of coffee.

 

[Terumo]

I'm not trying to be argumentative... i'm a bit cornfused.



but it can make you sick... heatstroke and such. Entropy can cause sickness... is this semantics or am I missing something.

Yes, it is semantics, and I can see where the communication derailed. I was saying this: If a person uses some exogenous factor to increase the signal of some symptom (e.g. body temperature, creatinine output, liver enzymes) of disease, it is not implicit of that disease. Fever doesn't cause disease. Creatinine doesn't cause renal failure. Cortisol doesn't cause stress.

But, won't your kidneys produce lower levels of creatine? There are some checks & balances used in maintaining homeostasis. When the kidneys 'see' that there is declining creatine in the bloodstream they release more. How long before the kidneys shut down creatine production entirely? This is why people cycle steroids, correct?...

There is down-regulation associated with creatine supplementation, but it is neither complete (endogenous creatine production doesn't totally cease) nor irreversible. Androgen receptors behave a bit differently, however. Highly androgenic compounds used for extended durations can trigger irreversible downregulation by changing enzymatic conformation within the receptor. It has something to do with altered binding affinities and chaperone proteins--very little is actually known about the mechanism. It actually takes quite a bit to get to this point. Androgen receptors are pretty resilient--they will generally up-regulate to normal function after some time off-cycle, without the use of ancillaries.

ps. caffiene is caffiene guys... green tea, black tea, blue tea, whatever. Tea is better for you than coffee, cuz there are anti-oxidants. It's even better with honey, good stuff in honey too.

Don't dismiss coffee--it is loaded with melanoidins, a quite potent class of anti-oxidants. There are polyphenols in coffee also, but not to the extent of green and white teas.

 

[Wrassler]

thanks for the info terumo... 'preciate your time

wrassler

 

[Wild Dan Hibiki]

speaking of coffee, i went to a starbucks yesterday to order an expresso, they've got a bunch of wierdass names for things that i didnt even know wtf was going on. the lady gave me 2 shots in a tiny and i was like wtf is this shit? what the hell do i do with this? i just chucked it in the bin and walked out. way to complicated

 

[farmboy]

You wre best off tossing it. Their coffee and espresso stink. I don't know what it is about their coffee, but it tastes like the beans were roasted too long. The stuff just tastes burnt to me.

 

[Wrassler]

it's espresso, and it comes in 1oz. glasses. It's crazy strong.

I feel your pain on the unecessarily complicated names. if you have 3 fuckin sizes, one is a medium. not "vente"

wrassler.

 

[tank666]

speaking of coffee, i went to a starbucks yesterday to order an expresso, they've got a bunch of wierdass names for things that i didnt even know wtf was going on. the lady gave me 2 shots in a tiny and i was like wtf is this shit? what the hell do i do with this? i just chucked it in the bin and walked out. way to complicated

starbucks is the biggest rip off place i have ever been to. the prices are ridiculous and when i have been can hardly ever sit. (there is one in Machida, Japan we used to go to and never ever saw a free seat there) Costa Coffee rulez, dunno if u have them in Aussie though.