By any chance is their video footage of Ray Robinson vs Henry Armstrong?

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This fight along side Joe Jennette vs Sam Mcvea (the one that went to the 49th round) are the fights that I haven't seen but want to see the most. I know there's no video footage JJ vs SM 1-49 so I'm shit out of luck, and I know Ray Robinson's welterweight fights are very hard to come by but I'm still hoping that there is some footage. By chance does anyone know where I can find the clip about that dream match?
 
I've never heard of that fight existing on film today, and really, I don't know why someone would want to see it so much considering the reports on it and such.

An example and consensus of what took place in that one;



ARMSTRONG QUITS RING AFTER LOSS TO RAY ROBINSON

Hammering Henry Admits He's All Through as Boxer

New York, Aug 28--The amazing ring saga of Henry Armstrong ended permanently last night and more's the pity it terminated amid boos and catcalls at the scene of some of his greatest triumphs.

The fabulous career of the 32 year-old former triple title holder came to grief against the flicking fists of youthful Ray (Sugar) Robinson who waltzed to an easy 10-round decision before 15,371. The gross gate was $60,789.31.

Armstrong, in his prime regarded as one of the greatest fighters ever to hop into a ring, retired once before in January, 1941, but changed his mind last year and started a comeback that has grossed him nearly $200,000 in 27 outings.

Lost Every Round to Robinson

But after the drubbing he took in losing every round to Robinson, Henry didn't mince matters. He emphasized in the dressing room that he was hanging up his gloves for keeps.

"I'm through," he said wearily. "From now on I'll manage Cecil Hudson." Hudson, a welterweight from Los Angeles, outpointed Izzy Jannazzo, New York veteran, in a six-round preliminary.

"I know it looked bad," Armstrong continued, referring to the boos from the third round on. "It's my style of fighting. If Robinson had come in, instead of staying away, it would have been different."

But Robinson, regarded in many quarters as the uncrowned welterweight champion, was content to backpedal and jab, jab, jab from longe range. Only occasionally did he cut loose with the two-fisted savage attack that earned him a terrifying reputation. He seemed to hurt Armstrong on these occasions, but showed a healthy respect for his opponent and never followed up his advantage.

Fans Boo Robinson

The crowd, keen for the kill, didn't like Robinson's caution and booed lustily. The skinny Harlem youth, a 4 to 1 favorite, asserted afterwards that Armstrong was the "greatest I ever fought. I never could get him in trouble." Armstrong said he was dazed by Robinson's first left, but "after that I got onto it and he never bothered me."

Scaling 140 pounds to Robinson's 145, Armstrong chased the Harlem youth from start to finish, but on only two occasions did he get close enough to land some good punches. His weaving tactics from the crouching position made Robinson miss repeatedly, but not enough to reduce his big lead on points.


- Associated Press, Aug 28th, 1943
 
I've never heard of that fight existing on film today, and really, I don't know why someone would want to see it so much considering the reports on it and such.

An example and consensus of what took place in that one;



ARMSTRONG QUITS RING AFTER LOSS TO RAY ROBINSON

Hammering Henry Admits He's All Through as Boxer

New York, Aug 28--The amazing ring saga of Henry Armstrong ended permanently last night and more's the pity it terminated amid boos and catcalls at the scene of some of his greatest triumphs.

The fabulous career of the 32 year-old former triple title holder came to grief against the flicking fists of youthful Ray (Sugar) Robinson who waltzed to an easy 10-round decision before 15,371. The gross gate was $60,789.31.

Armstrong, in his prime regarded as one of the greatest fighters ever to hop into a ring, retired once before in January, 1941, but changed his mind last year and started a comeback that has grossed him nearly $200,000 in 27 outings.

Lost Every Round to Robinson

But after the drubbing he took in losing every round to Robinson, Henry didn't mince matters. He emphasized in the dressing room that he was hanging up his gloves for keeps.

"I'm through," he said wearily. "From now on I'll manage Cecil Hudson." Hudson, a welterweight from Los Angeles, outpointed Izzy Jannazzo, New York veteran, in a six-round preliminary.

"I know it looked bad," Armstrong continued, referring to the boos from the third round on. "It's my style of fighting. If Robinson had come in, instead of staying away, it would have been different."

But Robinson, regarded in many quarters as the uncrowned welterweight champion, was content to backpedal and jab, jab, jab from longe range. Only occasionally did he cut loose with the two-fisted savage attack that earned him a terrifying reputation. He seemed to hurt Armstrong on these occasions, but showed a healthy respect for his opponent and never followed up his advantage.

Fans Boo Robinson

The crowd, keen for the kill, didn't like Robinson's caution and booed lustily. The skinny Harlem youth, a 4 to 1 favorite, asserted afterwards that Armstrong was the "greatest I ever fought. I never could get him in trouble." Armstrong said he was dazed by Robinson's first left, but "after that I got onto it and he never bothered me."

Scaling 140 pounds to Robinson's 145, Armstrong chased the Harlem youth from start to finish, but on only two occasions did he get close enough to land some good punches. His weaving tactics from the crouching position made Robinson miss repeatedly, but not enough to reduce his big lead on points.


- Associated Press, Aug 28th, 1943

I apologize for my ignorance, I wasn't aware of the circumstances. Prime vs Prime, that would of been a fantastic fight for the ages...wouldn't you agree?
 
very few of Robinson's welterweight fights were filmed, tragically. The accounts i've read have it a shutout for Ray. Ray's take on it is he hit him in the body once and realized he was "an old man really" and idolizing Armstrong, he carried him. Later, he cagily evaded questions of whether he could have kayoed Armstrong "I just couldn't knock out Henry Armstrong". Hanks' take on it was that he hurt Robinson and after that, Ray bicicyled around the rest of the fight. Hank had a style that wasn't meant for a long career. I've also heard he was one of the most voracious womanizers ever in boxing.
 
The accounts i've read have it a shutout for Ray. Ray's take on it is he hit him in the body once and realized he was "an old man really" and idolizing Armstrong, he carried him.

A quick summary, but that's basically it in a nutshell.
 
PLenty of Robinson's welterweight fights were filmed. Lots in fact. So thats not really true at all.
 
Yeah, there's some of his welterweight stuff out there, and YouTube has a bit of it up on the site, I do believe.
 
really? how about his title winning fight with tommy bell or his fateful ko of doyle? Any of his fights with lamotta before the final one?
 
really? how about his title winning fight with tommy bell or his fateful ko of doyle? Any of his fights with lamotta before the final one?

I've not heard of those ones being available, Moz, but I've seen about 20 min of his welterweight title defense against Fusari from 1950, as well as a good chunk of his fight with Sammy Angott from 1946. I've seen another couple of one and two minute clips (from homemade videos) from around that time, as well, but they weren't against some of his better opposition as a welterweight.
 
LOTS were filmed. From what I gathered, close to thirty or forty. Maybe more. The problem is the New York company who managed the venues he boxed under. They just never saw the light of day.
 
This fight along side Joe Jennette vs Sam Mcvea (the one that went to the 49th round) are the fights that I haven't seen but want to see the most. I know there's no video footage JJ vs SM 1-49 so I'm shit out of luck

Besides all the modern stuff wrteen about that Jeannette-McVey fight, which may or may not be all that accurate, this is the only stuff I can find of the fight from the old newspapers of the time. Actually, I have seen a more extensive account in the past of it and from the time, but right now I'll be fucked if I could remember where I found it. :icon_neut

Anyways, not much...



JEANNETTE BEATS MCVEY IN 50 ROUNDS

PARIS, April 17--In the greatest fight winessed in France since John L. Sullivan and Charley Mitchell fought at Chantilly in 1888, Joe Jeannette of New York tonight defeated Sam McVey of California in the fiftieth round of a finish fight.

A great crowd witnessed a game exhibition of heavy weights, the conest lasted for three hours and a half. McVey had the better of the fight up to the fortieth round, and in both the twenty-first and twenty-second rounds he had the New Yorker so groggy that he could barely keep his feet.

Jeannette bore the punishment bravely and recuperated in a wonderful manner. McVey had almost worn himself out after 40 rounds, and by this time the New York fighter was coming back. By effective fighting he gradually beat the Californian and practically had him knocked out when the fight ended, McVey's seconds throwing up the sponge.

McVey was the favorite in the betting and the purse was $6,000. It is understood that Jeannette now intends to issue a challenge to Jack Johnson for the championship of the world.


JEANNETTE GETS THE DECISION

McVey Fails to Respond in Forty-ninth Round

Paris, April 17--Joe Jeannette won the finish fight with Sam McVey tonight, the scrap going forty-nine rounds. It was not a knockout, as McVey simply refused to respond at the beginning of the fiftieth round, declaring he "had enough". His seconds threw up the sponge. There has been intense rivalry between McVey and Jeannette and challenges have been hurled right and left by both men, while they raked down the money in the music halls.

McVey was the favorite for tonight's fight, and he started off like a winner, putting Jeannette down for the count in the sixth round. It was a give-and-take encounter to the twentieth round, with McVey having all the better of it, but after that point he weakened, and was slammed all around the ring by Jeannette, who administered terrific punishment until the forty-ninth, when McVey quit cold. Both men were badly punished.



- The top bit is from a wire report printed in a number of different sources (SF Call, NY Tribune, etc., etc., etc.) the day after the fight on Apr 18th, 1909, while the bottom one was printed in the Washington Herald and a couple of others. The Washington Herald also published an article a few days later (24th) stating McVey's and his manger's complaints about how Jeannette supposedly revived himself throughout the fight by using an "oxygen caffeine" and they also complained about how Jeannette's seconds supposedly threw cold water directly on him when he was knocked down towards the end of the 19th round (They say Jeannette doesn't get up if that didn't happen). A challenge to an immediate rematch was issued, as well. *shrugs*
 
PLenty of Robinson's welterweight fights were filmed. Lots in fact. So thats not really true at all.

Yup......Lot's of Ray stuff filmed early on.

I've even seen some of his fights in the New York Golden Gloves from 1939 in a documentary about him....

Alot of Ray's stuff is hit and miss.......The first five LaMotta fights are missing (either that or they were'nt filmed at all).....Ray's fight with Georgie Abrahms would be lost for all time except for a fan with a 16mm camera in the crowd who filmed it from aways back.
 
Anyone have a definitive list of which Robinson and Armstrong fights exist?

Also, I would love to hear more about the "lost" fights.

This is what I have, I am sure there is more out there though.

(some of it is mixed with other fighters)

Sugar Ray Robinson

1. vs. Fullmer IV, Griffith-Paret III, Dick Tiger-Henry Hank, Joe Louis-Godoy &
Godoy II, Fullmer-???, Benny Leonard-Tendler, Henry Armstrong-Ambers
2. vs. Sammy Angott, Cliff Beckett, Tony Riccio, Freddy Flores, Joey Gardello, Georgie
Abrams, Mike Leahy, Robert Villemain, Garth Panter, Paul Pender, Terry Downs,
Ray Barnes, Gerhard Hecht, Ray Basting, Rocky Castallani, Joey Archer, Jean
Stock, Luc Van Dam, Robert Villemain II, Hans Stretz, Jean Walzack III, Emile
Saerens, George Estahoff, Hecht, Tony Ancona, Andy Nonnells, Randy Turpin I,
Rocky Graziano, Charley Fusari
3. vs. Randy Turpin I
4. vs. Randy Turpin II (HL) – ESPN Classic
5. vs. Joey Maxim – ESPN Classic
6. vs. Jake LaMotta VI - live and replay versions
7. vs. Paul Pender
8. vs. Dennis Moyer I & II + Hagler vs. Watts I & II
9. Sportcentury
10. Ringside (disc#2) vs. Louis Valentine (1939 Golden Gloves), Stock, Turpin I,
Graziano, Maxim
11. Ringside (disc#3) vs. Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer I-III, Carmen Basilio I
12. Ringside (disc#4) vs. Basilio II, Gene Fullmer IV
13. SRR: The Bright Lights and Dark Shadows of a Champion – HBO, NTSC
 
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