Butterfly Sweepers! bigger and good base opponents

[ITRDC5]

Hi Guys,

So im a 64 kg purple belt and like to play seated guard and mainly butterfly sweeps from a seated and supine position.
I usually do very well against people my own size and weight +/- 20kg but this guy last night was around 100kg and had an annoying habit of basing his leg out when I hit a strong sweep on one side.(ex powerlifter)

Im looking for advice from people who are very experienced in this guard to give me some advice.
I did eventually managed to elevate and get into SLX and get a outside heel hook.
However i would like to get better at actually sweeping bigger dudes in this guard. I know that with sumi gaeshis( butterfly sweeps) through danager and gordons game that you cannot just sweep to the same side and use the same configuration each time.

You need to switch side to side and eventually you may get the sweep. This seems to work for people roughly the same weight but I find it absolutely exhausting against bigger guys . The last place I wanna be is on bottom and nakered, i'm trying to make my seated game more efficient.

Is there a good combo of butterfly sweeps that work against a heavy opponent ?
For example, over under to shoulder crunch etc

Or should I be focussing on kicking the knee or leg out when they base, I haven't tried this yet but wondering if it would be a good idea against someone much heavier ....

 

[EndlessCritic]

There's a lot of questions here. But I will say my opinion is the most powerful version of the basic butterfly sweep is this version where you punch your opponent's hands between their legs. I am sure I have hit 100kg guys with this.



If the guy is able to base with his leg for whatever reason, then you obviously need to transition into something else. And obviously forcing him to commit to the defence is what's going to open up the next attack.

 

[ITRDC5]

Thats exactly where I am at, Im excellent attrapping the arm - its the leg defence that is killing me .

Its no gi I am having the most difficulty in, in GI I use the belt grip like robson and can get the extra lift and connection with that

 

[Daz2300]

These are the two basic response gi or nogi to them posting the leg if you're not happy switching off to something else like X or SLX assuming I've understood the question.





This is another video of the hand stuff EndlessCritic is referring to without the gi.



It's not really my game but against bigger guys though I've always found this type of grip far more useful than the over/under one. Since you're stretching their shoulder away from their hip like the variation of the Scissor Sweep where they post their leg or The Unstoppable Sweep past a certain point they can't keep their base as the shoulder starts to turn under.

 

[The Thrill]

kick the foot out, or grab under their leg pull it tight and sweep the other way

if theyre lower, i like to think about pushing them away instead of sweeping sideways, so i can sit out into a front headlock or stand up

 

[shunyata]

There's a lot of questions here. But I will say my opinion is the most powerful version of the basic butterfly sweep is this version where you punch your opponent's hands between their legs. I am sure I have hit 100kg guys with this.



If the guy is able to base with his leg for whatever reason, then you obviously need to transition into something else. And obviously forcing him to commit to the defence is what's going to open up the next attack.

Adding to this, if he posts out with his leg he has created space.

Use the space.

Go into deep half, out the back escapes, reverse shrimping in general, x guard etc.

MOVE

THERE IS AN OPENING CREATED BY YOUR ACTIONS.

EXPLOIT IT.


If you're giving up a bunch of weight to an opponent, move you. Not them. Kick off them to move your own body.

 

[Einheri]

I like to sleeve drag and take the belt. You're completely removing his base on one side and threatening the back take at the same time. It makes his options quite limited. There's also nothing wrong with going for SLX if the option presents itself - the transition is really quite intrinsic to playing Butterfly Guard.

 

[ITRDC5]

I like to sleeve drag and take the belt. You're completely removing his base on one side and threatening the back take at the same time. It makes his options quite limited. There's also nothing wrong with going for SLX if the option presents itself - the transition is really quite intrinsic to playing Butterfly Guard.

I agree on the gi I always go for the belt grip it makes that sweeps muxh easier .

The difficulty I have is no gi against these big explosive types who can base left and right and really tire you out over the round

 

[Zankou]

You may not want to hear this but imo you are simply going to have to transition to another attack mode if the initial sweep fails. The biggest success factor in hitting the hook sweep is how deep you can drive that arm and how hard you can launch to your side. If that fails, then attempting to go to the other side or kick out the base will 95% of the time result in a flattened butterfly.

If you can underhook the posting leg and go full x guard, that is the best sweeping option. Otherwise I would generally attack the near side options with single leg x, arm drag to back, or depending on your grip an armbar on the near arm or kimura on the far arm. Some flexible guys will have good luck with omoplata or triangle as well. Some guys can jump guillotines too, nogi. Single leg x and arm drag are the highest percentage positional attacks tho, and as the smaller player I’d focus on deep positional attacks over subs.

Long story short, you have to punish their flattened and sprawled posture by attacking deep to the side, rather than trying to force through a sweep.

 

[Bos Docken]

You may not want to hear this but imo you are simply going to have to transition to another attack mode if the initial sweep fails. The biggest success factor in hitting the hook sweep is how deep you can drive that arm and how hard you can launch to your side. If that fails, then attempting to go to the other side or kick out the base will 95% of the time result in a flattened butterfly.

Long story short, you have to punish their flattened and sprawled posture by attacking deep to the side, rather than trying to force through a sweep.

Agree with most of this, from subjective personal experience. If I fail on the butterfly sweep I am usually immediately abandoning it and switching to SLX or X-Guard. Sorry OP.

I admire the "shoulder clamp" and side switch that both Marcelo Garcia and Gordon Ryan advocate, but have never had much success with it against bigger athletic guys. Then again MG and Gordon are beasts compared to my middle aged ass.

MG also advocates transitioning to the "razor" armbar from the shoulder clamp on sprawled opponents, but I think I have landed that maybe three times.... ever.