Butterfly Guard Pass Prevention?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by codemonkey76, May 20, 2008.

  1. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    I have been shown 2 butterfly guard passes recently which are ridiculously easy to do, that my butterfly guard is now useless, i need to know how to defend these two passes as well as any other common ones.

    1st Pass:
    Step up with one foot and turn your hips so your knee pushes their legs to the side and take side control (i am sure there are a bunch more details, but it just works so easy)​

    2nd Pass:
    Reach under 1 hook and grab the other pant leg, reach over the shoulder and grab the gi, post up on one leg and pull the pant leg one way and the gi the other to spin them to side control​
     
  2. Rbagu3

    Rbagu3 <img src="http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7992/

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    i came here to tell you how to pass it. i didn't read the thread title well. sorry
     
  3. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Like I've said in other threads, the whole point is that he should not be getting any opportunity to even begin those passes. He does NOT ever get to touch your legs. If he does, you need to be armdragging/collardragging the bejeezus out of him. That first pass, as he tries to go to the side you will collar drag him clean through the mat. Just skip your hips out and yank the cross collar down. It's a brutal sweep, especially if you block the shin .. I wouldn't do that during training, it's too harsh.

    Keep your legs back and your arms forward, and these passes are eliminated. Only bring in your hooks after you have underhooks/armdrags, so that he can't do these passes.

    If you do get flattened out, work on using your hooks to kick the guy away as you fight for double underhooks and get your legs back under you. Also, you can grab the pant if you can't get double underhooks. Double pant grab is okay, one underhook and one pant grab is better, double underhooks are best.
     
  4. Shaldag

    Shaldag Orange Belt

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    there are probably some good specific counters but i would think that good grip fighting and hip movement would prevent those types of passes. In butterfly guard you have to be aggressive you cant just wait till you opponent takes control like that.
     
  5. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    95% of the problems people have with butterfly relate to keeping their legs forward and flopping on their back, as though they were playing closed guard except with butterfly hooks.
     
  6. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    I always let those same passes happen, too. But as these guys have said, I think you have to be very proactive in this guard.

    Personally, I am only able to use it for brief moments as a transition between other guards or to hook sweep, but I never hang out in that kind of guard for too long (because they pass).
     
  7. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    thanks zankou, i was hoping you would post... i am sure you have given this advice a hundred times before, but unless you are working on that specific problem, you sort of gloss over the details. So I should not be siting their with my shin in contact with his chest, i should have my arms forward getting whatever grips i want first and then scoot in and bam sweep, instead of hanging out in close contact getting my grips when i am in a vulnerable position?
     
  8. Kuark

    Kuark Yellow Belt

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    if they grab your leg like that either break grip or abort immediately
     
  9. wOg

    wOg Burien Top Team

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    I agree with this a lot. I'm trying to build up my butterfly guard (slowly, this is the year of the half guard for me) and one thing I notice is that when it's not working, I usually bail into either half or quarter guard (Gustavo Machado's not Eddie Bravo's). It's kept me away from that "flop" tendency you mention.

    Zankou, would you also say that butterfly guard isn't a guard you can really "hang out in" like closed guard? Sometimes I find myself treating butterfly guard like it's closed guard and not staying active with my hooks (Kesting's "spring-loaded legs", for example).
     
  10. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Yep, exactly. To the poster immediately above, I would say that you can in fact "hang out" in butterfly guard, but hanging out has a different meaning in butterfly guard than closed guard. Hanging out in butterfly guard means scooting around on your butt, leaning forward, and either handfighting or using the cross-collar sitting position. If you keep your legs back and keep monkeying around with your hands in front, you can play around for quite some time. Your opponent will be very leery of giving you an underhook, armdrag, or takedown, so they will usually be conservative. Once the hooks come in tho (and they only come in after you get a good clinch/armdrag), there is no hanging out, it is do or die time -- you are either sweeping hard or trying to return to safety.

    If you end up on your back with shins against the chest, you want double underhooks and for your head to be lower than theirs, right under their head. If you don't have that, you will want to kick them back with your hooks and try to get your legs back, returning to the handfighting. You can also bail out to half guard, which happens a lot when you play butterfly.
     
  11. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    ^ thanks for that nugget Zankou.

    I have been trying to figure out the "sitting guard" as I call it. (even though everyone else seems to call it butterfly for some reason)


    butterfly guard is what bma_mat invented (spider guard with knees on biceps). double sleeve control with feet on hips knees in biceps = butterfly guard! spider guard is its own beast.
     
  12. JiuJitsu_Greg

    JiuJitsu_Greg Blue Belt

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    When I play butterfly guard I try to get underhooks asap. I find that when I get underhooks I can usually get close enough and get under the guy enough to smother his pass attempts unless he stands then its armdrag or jump to my knees/feet.
     
  13. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    i have just watched robson moura's butterfly guard instructional and one point he is very clear about is gripping the pants... I haven't been shown this before but it is genius, it stops a lot of the passes i was worried about... i am gonna practice this tonight.
     

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