Butterfly guard and xguard in mma

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by michi972, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. michi972

    michi972 Green Belt

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    Wy are these two guards used do rarely in mma.It's hard to throw effective ground and pound from butterfly guards and xguard as well (in x guard you control both of opponent's legs, so I think you are not in a big threat od ground and pound
     
  2. Quebec Nick

    Quebec Nick Purple Belt

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    I don't really agree with butterfly guard makes it hard to do good ground and pound. To have an effective butterfly sweeps you need to sit up, so you let them posture. Everytime the other guy manage to flatten you on your back you're open for heavy GnP.

    Also if you don't have good upper body control, it's pretty easy to go to at least half guard which is just as bad as side control in MMA.

    You're also vulnerable to guillotines without all those good grips you can have in the gi

    Butterfly hooks are very useful in scrambles to get back up, but playing butterfly guard doesn't seem like the greatest idea

    I agree though about X guard and single X. Using your legs to go underneath and sweep, create scrambles or attacking the legs isn't used enough in MMA
     
  3. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    I thought butterfly was the most common? I wonder why I think that.
     
  4. Oshime2

    Oshime2 you were too beautiful for this world

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    Off the top of my head Robbie Lawler used butterfly pretty effectively against Koscheck and there were several butterfly exchanges in Hunt vs Struve.
     
  5. thugpoet

    thugpoet Purple Belt

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    Gsp has used butterfly guard in the past when he was rarely on his back
     
  6. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Brown Belt

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    its hard to do it usually will happen a quick transition u gotta remember guys in mma are all solid fighters and very very technical it isnt like white and blue belt sin the gym putting on gloves and working gnp with you

    i think you gotta be really good and stay very tight to get it to work for you
     
  7. Alech33

    Alech33 Yellow Belt

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    At the end of the day in mma you don't really want to stay on bottom working for a sub. Imo getting to butterfly and using it to stand should be the primary goal for the bottom guy
    As for x along the same lines, use it to threaten and if they give you space take advantage of it to stand
     
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  8. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    I think comparatively butterfly guard is a lot more common in high level mma than it is in high level bjj comps.
     
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  9. imarayda

    imarayda Purple Belt

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    Butterfly guard is very common. You just don't see it played the same way its taught in traditional bjj settings. Fighters use it often to stand up or create distance, as opposed to sweep or sub attempts
     
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  10. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    If you have enough space to use x-guard, you already have enough space to grab a leg or kick off and stand.

    Same goes with butterfly. I think the best application in mma is when you kick off putting your foot on their hips first, and when they run back into you, you take them over to create space for a stand up. Maybe not the best but one of the easiest. An example would be when Rory pulled it off on Maia
     
  11. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    exactly, just standing up is usually a better strategy in MMA. zack mackovsky is the guy who stands out to me as successfully using x-guard in mma, chaining the "take out the trash" sweep with his wrestling.

    i'm not an mma fighter so it's hard to test this, but i feel like punches act as a major counterweight to typical open guards (the ability of a strong and aggressive mma opponent to lean his weight into the open guard in order to deliver the punch, and then directing that weight toward the guard players head). even in bjj, pressuring into an open guard will stalemate the primary attacks of the guard, but in mma this is default posture for gnp.
     
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  12. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Nice, what is the taking out the trash sweep from x guard. And also what fight was that Zach used it from? I have fight pass so I might watch it
     
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  13. westfield

    westfield White Belt

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    You can just jump over the butterfly guard
     
  14. Alech33

    Alech33 Yellow Belt

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    Yes, which fight, I would like to see this. I actually know Zach, he's got a lot of wrestling tricks hes taught BJJ guys over at that gym
     
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  15. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Rory Mcdonald used x without too much difficulty, and basically everyone who is good at getting back up from guard had butterfly as part of their sequence
     
  16. ChainFlow

    ChainFlow Brown Belt

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    Yep. You see it a lot in fights.

    Guy on bottom establishes at least 1 butterfly hook, starts pulling top person so that they can threaten a sweep. Top person leans back to resist. Bottom person uses that lean back to push off and get up.

    Alternatively, bottom person establishes hook, top person realizes that pressuring into a butterfly hook is a bad idea, relieves pressure. Bottom person frames and gets up.
     
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  17. michi972

    michi972 Green Belt

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    Which fight?
     
  18. asian-glow

    asian-glow Orange Belt

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    I spent the last year focusing on bfly guard and it's offshoots (X and SLX) because I thought it would be more applicable to mma; I have no current interest in mma but I do have an interest in making my grappling somewhat "strike proof".

    While I often use these guards on people who don't want to stand with me or if I am forced there, I forget that in an mma context I shouldn't engage people with them unless I absolutely must.

    Even so, I wonder what point I'm just better off grappling in an mma school if self defense is one of my main goals.
     
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  19. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    Im assuming he was referring to the Maia fight, where Macdonald made a good account for himself in the grappling department.

    Gegard Mousasi also used butterfly guard very well to stand up against Chris Weidman.

    Robert Whittaker is another good example of good stand ups, which he displayed versus both Jacare and Romero.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018

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