Busting the Fedor Myth

[boss429]

I deal in Reality, which is why I included an example that actually happened. Fedor exhibited a surprising low fight IQ in the Werdum fight. Jon is the opposite, he’s clutch and gameplans the fuck out of his opponents, analyzing as much film as he trains. He’s a truly unparalleled savant of MMA.

I apologize for any further hurt to your feelings.

I appreciate the apology but I can assure you my feelings aren't the least bit hurt.

I actually don't even disagree with you about Jones or about Fedor become a stand up brawler when his long and unpresidented winning streak split between Sambo and MMA came to an end (Sambo first, his true passion) at which point he no longer fought methodically in MMA (which may have also had something to do with switching from a ring to a cage and disliking the more circus like atmosphere surrounding fighting in the US) but prior to that he was far from a wreckless brawler and much like Jones beat guys at there own strenghths.

As for the Rings "loss" elbows were illegal and since Fedor couldn't continue in the tournament due to the cut but since someone needed to move forward Kohsaka got a win instead of it being ruled an NC. Did you see the rematch? (Rhetorical question)

Fedor is admittedly my 2nd favorite fighter and I'm not a big Jones fan but it's impossible to ignore his talents and he's the only guy I would say actually does beat prime Fedor but it really is a shame you never saw the man fighting and experienced the mystique and aura that surrounded him.

Insead you write a post apparently "busting myths" while having no real knowledge of what you speak of and then have the audacity to tell me you "speak in facts" and accusing me of arguing based on emotion, lol.

 

[Oooxente]

Facts
One of most complete fighters to enter a ring/cage,undefeated for 10 years,beat a murders roll of HW names including
Minotauro
Andrei Alrlovsky
Tim Sylvia
Mark Coleman
kevin Randleman
Heath Herring
Just in this short list you have 3 HW champions.
One of then arguably the second best HW EVER.

One of most humble individuals to become a MMA champion.
Never got caught doping.

Also facts.

 

[mjfan23]

Lol and TS tried to sound serious

 

[SL1200]

GOAT's don't cheat.. now gtfooh

 

[ferrisjso]

Myth: A widely held but false belief or idea

Trigger Warning: This thread may upset the uneducated fans of the sport, this is not my intention.

Let us begin.

Myth 1) Fedor has one of the greatest undefeated streaks in MMA history.
There’s one problem with this Myth. Fedors undefeated streak ended 5 fights into his career.

RINGS King of Kings 2002:
It turned out that the key to defeating Fedor was targeting his soft Russian skin which is highly susceptible to cuts . Tsuyoshi Koshsaka, a Pro Japanese Wrestler, discovered this merely seconds into the fight nearly severing a part of Fedors face with a quick elbow. Fedor unlike Jones was not disqualified for hurting his opponent, rather his opponent damaged him too badly to continue.

This is why Jon is undefeated and Fedor never was.

Myth 2) Fedor was out of his prime when he began losing




This is one of my favorites. The word "Prime" is like a magic wand fanboys wave at the blemishes on their favorite fighters record. Let us compare.

Fedor record from 34 years of age onwards: 7-4 including wins over Maldonodo ( he lost), Chael Sonnen, and Jeff Monson. Losses include: Werdum, Bigfoot, Dan Henderson, and Mitrione.

Daniel Cormier record from 34 years of age onwards: 9-1 including wins over Stipe Miocic, Anthony Johnson 2X, Gus, Dan Henderson. Losses : Jon Jones (GOAT)

Also of note is that Cormier was brutally knocked out and went through a war with Gus before going onto distinguish himself with a career crowning KO victory over Miocic. This debunks the predictable "wear and tear" excuse as well.

Myth 3) Fedor would have experienced great success in the UFC and could beat most modern UFC champions.

Fedor actually had a surprisingly low fight IQ.

Brawling and Sambo can only last so long, eventually you have to gameplan your fights and not make stupid decisions like jumping into a world class BJJ guard after landing a strong but not dazing knockdown. Fedor failed to show new wrinkles in his game during his career, it caught up to him again when he left the Japanese circuit. This pitfall wasn't unique to Fedor but rather endemic at the time. MMA has evolved by leaps and bounds since the era of PRIDE and Old UFC, leading to my next point...


Allow me to introduce you to the true GOAT of MMA

1) Youngest Champion in UFC history
2) Undefeated
3) Longest win streak in UFC history at 18 (He beat Hammil)
4) 11-0 in title fights
5) Destroyed the current HW champion x2


GOAT list:
1) Jon Jones
2) GSP
3) Daniel Cormier
4) Anderson Silva
5) DJ

Look Fedor is a great guy and I have no animus towards him, I just had to set the record straight.

I'm supporting your argument here cause I've been trying to dispel this myth for years find it sooo frustrating.

1-Pride had a lot of inflated streaks because they didn't have the best fighters defend belts against number one contenders often or almost at all. Wandy had an insane streak too and before Pride he lost to Tito and after he lost to all the top LHW's except Jardine. That streak is because he was in Pride. Elite fighters in the UFC don't get access to actual cans, some of the contenders don't deserve title shots but they are almost always top fighters in the division. Pride is thus great for record padding even if it was better than UFC. Fedor did beat the best Pride HW's didn't finish Big Nog or Cro Cop though.

2-EXACTLY. I've been saying this constantly. Pride fans move a fighters expiration date to whenever they feel like it and even if they are right about a fighter not being the same, they do not apply that standard to other guys. Pride fighters were encouraged to dope and while I'm not going to give the whole doping is wrong speech, in promotions were they wouldn't be able to dope seeing a difference in performance is expected and most of the best Pride fighters(whether they were juiced or not, not accusing specific people) did look worse in the UFC, regardless of age.

Ignoring what I said above take that away Fedor is 12-3 after leaving Pride and is currently coming off a 7-1 run. He's about to fight Bader another fighter coming off an incredible 12-2 run for a world title. Also Fedor's losses were to other great fighters. Werdum's a BJJ black belt who also subbed Cain. Hendo is one of the greatest fighters in MMA history whose fist gives him a chance against anyone and Mitrione while not on that level was on a four fight winning streak when he beat Fedor that only got broken by Bader. Big Foot contended for a UFC title and only lost to Werdum in Cain for a bunch of years. Fedor's also been finishing people he has no decisions since leaving Pride. In MMA most stars rise in their early 30's and to say Fedor was over the hill at that age when he went right back to winning against less elite fighters is ridiculous. Entirely reasonable to say Fedor in Pride didn't face anyone as good as Werdum or Hendo.

3-Most Pride stars didn't succeed in the UFC. Hendo did, credit for Rampage's success was kind of stolen by the UFC and Shogun was pretty good. This is possible but we have no proof. Wandy was dominant at LHW and he got utterly destroyed in the UFC division and within like a year or two was fighting novelty matchups off his name recognition.

Another thing that needs to be noted is that the UFC HW division was probably at it's weakest and weaker than Pride's and that this was the easiest period for Fedor to dominate. Sylvia, Arlovoski, Mir and Couture were still at the top of the division at the end of the 2010's and Lesnar was able to get boosted to a title shot so fast for a reason.

Despite this Big Nog and Cro Cop didn't dominate the division before the new guard of Cain, JDS etc came in.

Big Nog went 5-6. He started 3-1 beating Herring, Sylvia and Couture getting finished by Mir. He only finished Sylvia which should have been expected. Big Nog beat the two weakest fighters he fought, Schuab and Herman but lost all his other fights, to not only Cain and Mir again but guys like Werdum(same as Fedor), Nelson and Struve. Want to bring up he wasn't washed up either he was still beating the worse fighters he was matched with and losing to the best of the division.

Cro Cop went 5-6 too. He won his first fight then lost most of his fights to the same people, even lost to Schuab who supposedly washed up Big Nog beat. He also is doing great in Japan rn, so it wasn't just him getting old.

Point is Fedor wouldn't have dominated HW, might have had some early success cause the division was so shallow but he would have been outclassed by guys like Werdum regardless what promotion he was in. Anyhow if Fedor was a UFC champ in 2007 or 2008 then starts losing to Cain, JDS and those kind of guys at the same time(and he would) he started losing in Strikeforce, so what? He would be dominating a division that Brock Lesnar was the champ of before Cain came along. He's not washed up but either just fighters got better and the other popular Pride legends ended up losing to them while still beating most everyone else, only difference is Fedor is still fighting in the second promotion not the UFC so fans can maintain the delusion things would have went different.

Agree with your point that MMA evolved beyond the best fighters of that era and any domination Fedor would have had was because the UFC HW division had a few more years before that happened. Still not bad but it's naive to think he'd beat Cain, JDS or Werdum just better fighters. Not cause Fedor's washed up but cause they are larger with more dangerous skill sets like black belts in BJJ and MT a lethal combo.

4-Jones is obviously better than Fedor. Jones biggest advantage over guys was his height and reach combined with lethal MT, like a larger AS. Fedor is the same size as the guy's Jones dominated at LHW but Fedor's not as fast. Hendo was going to fight Jones a year after the Fedor fight when he wasn't washed up yet and Hendo was a huge underdog despite several incredible UFC wins. No proof Fedor would do any better than the best LHW's of that era would have done worse even if he was in his athlethic prime, cause that's not the issue, guys' small relatively slow doesn't know MT. Fedor's size and skills simply aren't a challenge for Jones based on what we've seen, age has little part of it.

Disagree with the DC part of your GOAT list lol but yeah Fedor even at HW should be behind several guys. Not just DC but Werdum, Stipe, Cain and JDS probably Carwin. While Fedor beat Arlovoski he did take him by surprise IMO and think Arlovoski was a bigger challenge then he might of looked though can't prove it, Cro Cop think might be better too. Can't prove those last two would lose any argument over it but he's not the greatest HW.

 

[Mike K.O]

He beat Hammil

Man, with BS like that you will lose every argument
No he didn't beat him.
It's not a fucking street fight. One way to win in MMA is by DQ
If Jon doesn't want to play by the rules, then great, but don't say he won. He lost by DQ and it's official
Ofc, he won the fight in terms of dominating and beating Matt up. But, Jon was dumb enough to throw illegal techniques, so the fight was stopped and the DQ win was given to Matt

 

[Randy Jo]

Are you proud of yourself?