Bulking Plateau - Help Needed

[Deleted member 87037]

I've been bulking (first time) for the past 3 months. The first ~6 weeks I was gaining regularely and went from 177 to 191. ~5 or 6 weeks ago I hit a plateau and as of now I still can't get past 191.

I highly doubt it's my diet (I eat minimum 4000 calories a day, clean; lots of protein) so it must be how I workout. I started out on the Rippetoe Starting Strength program but stopped doing deadlift & pendlay rows ~7 weeks in because of lower back pain due to poor form (I watched a ton of videos/read a few articles but still messed them up somehow - I'm assuming out of arrogance [adding too much weight]).

Also, the last couple weeks my body hasn't been able to handle squatting 3x a week like I usually do. Now I squat once a week; twice at most. Reason being is I've doubled the weight from when I first started 3 months ago and my legs only rest on Sat/Sun as I have Muay Thai twice a week (which, in addition to squats, takes its toll).

Should I wait to bring back deadlift (when my back feels 100%) or start up again now, doing it with very low weight?

Anyways, as of late, my workout plan has basically looked like this:

Mon/Wed/Fri:
3x5 Benchpress
3x5 Squat (once or twice a week)
3x5 Dumbbell Row
4x5 Barbell Curl
4x5 Tricep Extensions

Tues/Thurs:
Muay Thai 90min

Any advice on how to get past this plateau and start gaining again?

Oh, and in case in matters - I'm 18 and 6'3.

 

[Donut62]

I've been bulking (first time) for the past 3 months. The first ~6 weeks I was gaining regularely and went from 177 to 191. ~5 or 6 weeks ago I hit a plateau and as of now I still can't get past 191.

I highly doubt it's my diet (I eat minimum 4000 calories a day, clean; lots of protein) so it must be how I workout. .

Your doubt is misplaced. If you aren't gaining weight, you aren't eating enough. Plain and simple. You can lift all you want, but if you are not in a caloric surplus you're going nowhere. 4000 calories isn't necessarily a whole lot if you are training hard in the weight room and in the ring at your age.

 

[vince89]

 

[hunto]

Plus

and

and lots of

 

[fearfactory]

^ this is very good advice

 

[ThinkGreen]

Wake up every night at 2 am and drink a casein protein shake w/ milk. And oh ya, eat more

 

[cXs808]

Your doubt is misplaced. If you aren't gaining weight, you aren't eating enough. Plain and simple. You can lift all you want, but if you are not in a caloric surplus you're going nowhere. 4000 calories isn't necessarily a whole lot if you are training hard in the weight room and in the ring at your age.

2x a week Squats and adding back in DL's won't hurt either

 

[vince89]

Mix your rep ranges up abit more.

Maybe get away from the full body workouts and do an upper/lower split or a push/pull split so you can do more volume which may get you some growth. Basically, do things differently to what youve been doing.

 

[Donut62]

^Look for a sign like this, and order $30 worth of stuff.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

Your doubt is misplaced. If you aren't gaining weight, you aren't eating enough. Plain and simple. You can lift all you want, but if you are not in a caloric surplus you're going nowhere. 4000 calories isn't necessarily a whole lot if you are training hard in the weight room and in the ring at your age.

I was gaining fine until I switched from Karate to Muay Thai. Muay Thai has been much more conditioning-intensive, though I didn't think it would make that much of a difference. I've also been playing 2-3 hour games of soccer on Saturdays. I suppose these are the things that burning off all my excess calories. I'll add 1000 more calories a day in almonds/organic peanut butter/eggs and see where things go from there.

Wake up every night at 2 am and drink a casein protein shake w/ milk. And oh ya, eat more

I go to bed at 2am - and that's when I have my casein shake w/ milk lol.

Mix your rep ranges up abit more.

Maybe get away from the full body workouts and do an upper/lower split or a push/pull split so you can do more volume which may get you some growth. Basically, do things differently to what youve been doing.

I Googled this but I'm still a little confused. Are you suggesting every day I do push/pull split or one day I do purely push, the next purely pull, next push, etc. etc. If you can elaborate more on what you're saying it would be appreciated.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Prokofievian]

This, from Zatsiorsky's Science and Practice of Strength Training:


*ahem*

If athletes employ the same exercise with the same training load over a long period of time, performance improvement (gain) decreases. This is a manifestation of accomodation. With an increase in training volume or duration, the magnitude of adaptations diminishes-Principle of Diminishing Returns...Because of accomodation, it is inefficient to use standard exercises or a standard training load over a long period of time. Training programs must vary. At the same time, because of the specificity of training adaptations, the training exercises should be as close as possible to the main sport exercise in muscular coordination and physiological demand[Specificity]...To avoid or decrease the negative influence of accommodation, training programs are periodically modified. In principle there are two ways to modify training programs:

- Quantitative-changing training loads(for instance, the total amount of weight lifted)

-Qualitative-replacing the exercises.

Zatsiorsky V.M., Kraemer W.J. 2006 Science and Practice of Strength Training 2nd ed. (pg 5-6)

So, words to consider I think.

 

[grrthetree]

I think you need a new routine to, maybe try WS4SB? Theres only one day a week where you do heavy legs.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

This, from Zatsiorsky's Science and Practice of Strength Training:


*ahem*

If athletes employ the same exercise with the same training load over a long period of time, performance improvement (gain) decreases. This is a manifestation of accomodation. With an increase in training volume or duration, the magnitude of adaptations diminishes-Principle of Diminishing Returns...Because of accomodation, it is inefficient to use standard exercises or a standard training load over a long period of time. Training programs must vary. At the same time, because of the specificity of training adaptations, the training exercises should be as close as possible to the main sport exercise in muscular coordination and physiological demand[Specificity]...To avoid or decrease the negative influence of accommodation, training programs are periodically modified. In principle there are two ways to modify training programs:

- Quantitative-changing training loads(for instance, the total amount of weight lifted)

-Qualitative-replacing the exercises.

Zatsiorsky V.M., Kraemer W.J. 2006 Science and Practice of Strength Training 2nd ed. (pg 5-6)

So, words to consider I think.

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind and put it to action. Though, how am I supposed to know how often to change things up? Should I just do same muscles/different workouts each day of the week. Example (Triceps), Monday: Tricep Extensions, Wed: Skullcrushers, Fri: CG Benchpress?

 

[WinterIsComing]

Your body is at its equilibrium point. You have to force yourself to eat more if your eating 4k calories a day its time to step up to 5k. Eventually if you gain more weight and keep eating your body will hit a new equilibrium point at a higher weight.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

Your body is at its equilibrium point. You have to force yourself to eat more if your eating 4k calories a day its time to step up to 5k. Eventually if you gain more weight and keep eating your body will hit a new equilibrium point at a higher weight.

Lame. How is this "equilibrium point" determined? Is it just as simple as...lift longer > get stronger > lift more > burn more calories? Say if lifting 200 pounds takes the same effort/toll on my body now as it will for me to lift 300 pounds in x many months when I've become stronger, will I still be burning the same amount of calories - or exceedingly more (requiring me raise my caloric intake to keep up)?

 

[Real_Mckenzie]

Lame. How is this "equilibrium point" determined? Is it just as simple as...lift longer > get stronger > lift more > burn more calories? Say if lifting 200 pounds takes the same effort/toll on my body now as it will for me to lift 300 pounds in x many months when I've become stronger, will I still be burning the same amount of calories - or exceedingly more (requiring me raise my caloric intake to keep up)?

It's not the poundages your lifting necessarily. Lean body mass burns more calories doing nothing. Raising your body weight to 191 means you need to eat more. Couple that with now doing a lot more excercise with muay thai and lifting heavier weights = raise your calories.

If you raise the cals and you still don't gain trade up your routine. Well honestly I'd change up your routine anyways. WSFSB3 is a great option especially if your legs are having trouble recovering. DeFranco's Training ..:: The Ultimate Way To Become A Better Athlete ::..

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I'd sugest you change your routine. Starting strength would be a good place to start.

 

[WinterIsComing]

Lame. How is this "equilibrium point" determined? Is it just as simple as...lift longer > get stronger > lift more > burn more calories? Say if lifting 200 pounds takes the same effort/toll on my body now as it will for me to lift 300 pounds in x many months when I've become stronger, will I still be burning the same amount of calories - or exceedingly more (requiring me raise my caloric intake to keep up)?

Sorry you misunderstood me. It has nothing to do with the amount of weight your lifting. It has to do with the amount your eating. Your body is at a point where the amount you eat is sufficient to turn existing fat into muscle and to maintain your current weight. You either need to eat more or do less calorie burning exercise if you want to continue to gain weight.

 

[Darph]

I have the same problem when I'm training hard in grappling. I solved it using the FAQ.

1. 1x20 Squats, 1 Gallon of Milk per day.
2. You said you eat "clean." Stop it, Unless you're priming for an upcoming tournament, which you need to be a specific weight for, there's no reason to eat clean.
3. Deadlifts, DO THEM. Low weight, high reps. Speaking of which:
4. More reps. 3x5 is a strength program. 3x12 or 5x10 for mass.

Over all, you need to realize that you have convert all of this type 1 muscle to type 2. So you have a bulking phase, a power phase, then you can cut fat.

 

[Andy Rickert]

something about that last post seems like a recipe for disaster