BTW, for those who care, Jones' T/E ratio was 0.29 to 1

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WOW People here doing research about the effects of cocaine
 
Roger FedorAIR said:
Not sure what you're on about with these 2 sentences as they're my exact sentiments, as well, and kind of hard not to have read by now, given the amount of reporting, and almost over-reporting on the topic.

As for the rest of your post, where are these instances of people supplementing epi, as I'm unaware of an instance where an athlete popped for a failed T/E in the reverse, or an instance where an athlete passed T/E but then tests proved he was dosing equivalent test and epi so as to gain benefits, while still passing the initial test. Not saying that either scenarios are impossible, just that I've never even heard of it, but would gladly stand corrected, if you will substantiate this with any kind of example.

And yes, elevated T/E does, in fact, indicate supplementation of synthetic testosterone, as it is the basis and purpose for the test, to begin with (barring rare genetic anomaly, of course).
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I've never claimed that it has happened to a fighter, but it's common knowledge that your T/E ratio isn't a direct indication of your testosterone, as you just admitted in your post, and that reason is because of the variance of epitestosterone in your body. I mean, why else wouldn't this be a direct indication of your actual testosterone levels? That's the exact reason.


Anyways I guess I miss interpreted your post. I thought you were saying that a T/E ratio is JUST an indication of supplemented testosterone. Of course the purpose of a T/E ration is to judge supplemented testosterone since your epitestosterone would not rise with supplemented testosterone.


http://www.rxmuscle.com/articles/ch...erone-to-epitestosterone-ratio-drug-test.html

Here is some information about T/E ratio and some people using epitestosterone to balance their ratio, which is why usually other tests are done along with getting the T/E ratio.
"An epitestosterone urine concentration greater than 200 ng/mL indicates its misuse (some people try to take additional epitestosterone to correct the balance ... When officials detect this, a person is said to be "positive" for use of epitestosterone"
 
dr.Mitch said:
Yes and that is why they allow it up to 6:1 ratio...Even though maybe 1% of population has that high of a ratio. External test does not effect epitestosterone levels, just the test levels. So if your normal t/e levels are for example 3:1 if you have 14:1 (like reem) it's likely you injected some testosterone. It doesn's say how much test you have, but if you're an avarege male - it's about 14 times more then other people.

In Jones case - one of the explinations would be he was about at the 2-3 weeks after his last test injection, and his natural test didn't recover fully yet. Knowing that he maybe snorted some coke so he could later blame it on coke. Or it could just be my conspiracy theory
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This is my understanding of it, as well.

Glad someone else replied to that, because I honestly couldn't quite make heads or tails of what, specifically, he is trying to challenge.
 
PrinceOfPain said:
I just want to get this clear.
Are you saying that it's more likely to you that the most dominant LHW in UFC history has had a drug abuse problem that diminishes his abilities than that he is using PEDs to enhance them?
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Given that he is a confirmed coke user and has never had an issue with PEDs, yes.
And besides, I thought he was the most dominant LHW history because of the unfair height and reach advantage?
 
lol someone took too much steroid cover up drug... or better called MASKING AGENT
 
dr.Mitch said:
Yes and that is why they allow it up to 6:1 ratio...Even though maybe 1% of population has that high of a ratio. External test does not effect epitestosterone levels, just the test levels. So if your normal t/e levels are for example 3:1 if you have 14:1 (like reem) it's likely you injected some testosterone. It doesn's say how much test you have, but if you're an avarege male - it's about 14 times more then other people.

In Jones case - one of the explinations would be he was about at the 2-3 weeks after his last test injection, and his natural test didn't recover fully yet. Knowing that he maybe snorted some coke so he could later blame it on coke. Or it could just be my conspiracy theory
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I honestly have no idea why Jon has a low ratio, and I'm not going to try to speculate. It could be coke but then again Jon tested positive a month ago, and did test clean for his fight. I'm not sure coke from a month ago could influence his T/E ration so drastically. I honestly don't know.
 
Love how everyone uses Overeem as an example, and not Sonnen when his ratio was higher (16.9:1)

Sherdog confirmed racists!
 
RenoBJJr said:
I've never claimed that it has happened to a fighter, but it's common knowledge that your T/E ratio isn't a direct indication of your testosterone, as you just admitted in your post, and that reason is because of the variance of epitestosterone in your body. I mean, why else wouldn't this be a direct indication of your actual testosterone levels? That's the exact reason.


Anyways I guess I miss interpreted your post. I thought you were saying that a T/E ratio is JUST an indication of supplemented testosterone. Of course the purpose of a T/E ration is to judge supplemented testosterone since your epitestosterone would not rise with supplemented testosterone.
Click to expand...

Your sentiments here, are the same as mine, and are the same sentiments as my original post, so I really don't know what this argument is about...

But I think if you'll take a few moments to read the posts that preceded it, I think you might change your stance on this being common knowledge, as numerous posts before mine indicating that this test, which was only a T/E ratio, means that he had high testosterone, would indicate otherwise. We would need to have had a blood test indicating his specific nanogram per deciliter levels, to actually know that.

Although, I'm still intrigued by your post stating he could have supplemented epi, because I've never heard of it...
 
Not being a user or around users myself, but I'd assume that long term cocaine use/addition - enough that its affecting your body's ability to produce testosterone - would leave you with a depleted and generally unhealthy individual.

So unless that assumption is complete bollocks, I don't see how cocaine use can be attributed to such a low T/E ratio.
 
Laszlow said:
Love how everyone uses Overeem as an example, and not Sonnen when his ratio was higher (16.9:1)

Sherdog confirmed racists!
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I wondered about that myself many times. Although the idea of racism never crossed my mind. Not sure if you are serious about that.

Either way, it is worthy of note that Chael's was so outrageous.
 
Roger FedorAIR said:
Your sentiments here, are the same as mine, and are the same sentiments as my original post, so I really don't know what this argument is about...

But I think if you'll take a few moments to read the posts that preceded it, I think you might change your stance on this being common knowledge, as numerous posts before mine indicating that this test, which was only a T/E ratio, means that he had high testosterone, would indicate otherwise. We would need to have had a blood test indicating his specific nanogram per deciliter levels, to actually know that.

Although, I'm still intrigued by your post stating he could have supplemented epi, because I've never heard of it...
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No Roger read the last part of my post. I misinterpreted your post and thought you were implying that a T/E ration SOLELY judges supplemented testosterone but I now understand what you mean. You were implying a T/E ratio is used to judge supplemented testosterone because your epitestosterone doesn't rise with supplemented testosterone, which is correct.

I just got confused with what you were implying. Anyways here is an article I read a while ago that has some great information about the subject.

http://www.rxmuscle.com/articles/ch...erone-to-epitestosterone-ratio-drug-test.html

It implies a T/E ratio also needs three additional tests in order to properly test someone using a T/E ratio, including a epitestosterone test.

"An epitestosterone urine concentration greater than 200 ng/mL indicates its misuse (some people try to take additional epitestosterone to correct the balance ... When officials detect this, a person is said to be "positive" for use of epitestosterone"
 
Laszlow said:
Love how everyone uses Overeem as an example, and not Sonnen when his ratio was higher (16.9:1)

Sherdog confirmed racists!
Click to expand...

Probably because Sonnen was actually allowed to take T, and his failed test was more technicality than Reems.:p

In any way, if one wants high ratio, Johnnie Morton was 84:1 when he got KTFO'd by Bernard Ackah.
 
Roger FedorAIR said:
Your sentiments here, are the same as mine, and are the same sentiments as my original post, so I really don't know what this argument is about...

But I think if you'll take a few moments to read the posts that preceded it, I think you might change your stance on this being common knowledge, as numerous posts before mine indicating that this test, which was only a T/E ratio, means that he had high testosterone, would indicate otherwise. We would need to have had a blood test indicating his specific nanogram per deciliter levels, to actually know that.

Although, I'm still intrigued by your post stating he could have supplemented epi, because I've never heard of it...
Click to expand...
That's the case here most likely, either Jones used a masking agent to increase his epi levels, and went too far with it. Or he's not doing good PCT and his test levels haven't recovered post cycle. Most masking agents don't "cloud" over the increased test, they increase the epi so things level out. Check out this http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/26/s...-german-expert-warns-balco-investigators.html.
 
Karelinator said:
Probably because Sonnen was actually allowed to take T, and his failed test was more technicality than Reems.:p

In any way, if one wants high ratio, Johnnie Morton was 84:1 when he got KTFO'd by Bernard Ackah.
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What in the living FUCK? LOL

And he lost? That's probably a sign he should stop fighting.
 
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